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  #1  
Old 27-12-10, 04:44 AM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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Default Leeds Pals Titles

Happy New Year to all!

One for the Yorkshire guys I think? I know there are a couple here...

I have been rooting around the information and photos I have available to me here, but sadly this does not include Westlakes Book on titles.

Can somebody clarify if the Leeds Pals wore two versions of titles? I have one with "LEEDS" over W.York, and another with "15" over W. York. If this is the case, does anyone have dates? I can only guess that similar to Bradford and Halifax which are numbered 16, 18 and 21 respectively, the number "15" were the earlier versions issued and/or approved when the Battalions were formed. Possibly the "LEEDS" version came later?

Was there a 17th (2nd Leeds)? Never seen or heard of one one these....

Cheers, Neil
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  #2  
Old 27-12-10, 09:38 AM
raesherwood raesherwood is offline
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According to Westlake the 15th (1st Leeds) and 17th (2nd Leeds) (Service) Bns. both wore the LEEDS / W. YORK title (ref 887); The 16th (1st Bradford) (Service) Bn. wore 16 / W. YORK (ref 888); The 18th (2nd Bradford) (Service) Bn. wore 18 / W. YORK (ref 889). In Supplement No. 2 he also lists 15 / W. YORK and 21 / W. YORK for the respective Service Bns.
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  #3  
Old 27-12-10, 09:48 AM
raesherwood raesherwood is offline
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17th (Service) Battalion (2nd Leeds) was formed in Leeds in December 1914as a bantam Bn. Amalgamated with 15th Bn in December 1917. No specific title mentioned.
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Old 27-12-10, 10:05 AM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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Thanks Raesherwood.

So there were two titles, although it's a bit confusing at first. I missed the fact 17th were Bantam, so this makes sense....

The 21st is a tough one.... been looking for ages.

Cheers, Neil
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  #5  
Old 11-01-11, 10:35 AM
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Default LEEDS PALS SHOULDER TITLES

The 15th/17th Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment (respectively 1st & 2nd Leeds) wore the Leeds West York’s shoulder title there is no such thing as a 15th West York’s title to the best of my knowledge. Whilst these titles were quite rare there now seems to be glut of them coming up for sale, which makes me ask the question, is someone knocking out copies? In saying that I have a few pairs and they are all the same with no variation what so ever.

Other West York’s Leeds Battalions being the 1/7th, 2/7th, 1/8th, 2/8th (there were training units/battalions numbered 3/7th & 3/8th), all Leeds Rifles Bn's and respectively wore either the T7 or T8 Leeds Rifles, West York’s shoulders.

Post 1921 7th/8th West York’s wore the Leeds Rifles, West York’s Shoulder, until recently I believed that all these were titles with the T7 or T8 removed, I have however just got one from Buy wise (Bosleys) produced simply as Leeds Rifles, West York’s with no sign of a T7 or T8 having ever being fitted. I have a couple of variations for both the T7 and T8.

The two Bradford pals Battalions, wore 16th West York’s (1st Bradford) and 18th West York’s (2nd Bradford) shoulders, as a point of note I know some reproduction 16th Bn ones were made a few years ago for a TV programme, I don't know how many but they are out there so watch out for those. I have not seen any variations on the 16th but have 2 slightly different 18th ones.

As touched upon the 21st Bn (Wool & Textile Pioneers) is the hardest shoulder to get hold of, I'm happy to say I have 1 but must admit I paid over the odds for it, one of the problems of being a West Yorkshire Regiment nut I suppose.

Nec Aspera Terrant,

Cheers Marcus

Last edited by HAMMO2440; 18-03-14 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 11-01-11, 11:02 AM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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Marcus

The comment on the "Leeds" title is reassuring. There are some "15" ones about, but the majority look "crooked" to me, and have the wrong lugs.

Thanks also for the Leeds Rifles background. We learn every day. I saw the Buywyze one over Christmas, and wondered... had not seen one before.

The two Bradford 18th variations is again reassuring. I have these, and the 16th only one variation, so far.

The 21st is going to be a tough one for anyone, although I am not 100% convinced until a photo or similar is uncovered. Has anyone ever seen one? It'd be great to see one "in the flesh"!

Cheers, Neil
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Old 11-01-11, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Pearce View Post
Marcus

The comment on the "Leeds" title is reassuring. There are some "15" ones about, but the majority look "crooked" to me, and have the wrong lugs.

Thanks also for the Leeds Rifles background. We learn every day. I saw the Buywyze one over Christmas, and wondered... had not seen one before.

The two Bradford 18th variations is again reassuring. I have these, and the 16th only one variation, so far.

The 21st is going to be a tough one for anyone, although I am not 100% convinced until a photo or similar is uncovered. Has anyone ever seen one? It'd be great to see one "in the flesh"!

Cheers, Neil
Neil,
As I think I mentioned in my previous post I have one example of the 21st West Yorks shoulder, and it was not cheap.
Cheers Marcus
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Old 11-01-11, 11:38 AM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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Thanks Marcus, and noted. I was offered a "15" title recently for £150, which I thought was a little excessive! Therefore, I am on my back foot with regard to the 21st. I am not in any way suggesting yours is fake, but they will come up, given their scarcity...

If I manage to locate one, would you mind if I PM you for a pic? I will be on the lookout for the telltale signs of course.....
Cheers, Neil
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  #9  
Old 12-01-11, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Pearce View Post
Thanks Marcus, and noted. I was offered a "15" title recently for £150, which I thought was a little excessive! Therefore, I am on my back foot with regard to the 21st. I am not in any way suggesting yours is fake, but they will come up, given their scarcity...

If I manage to locate one, would you mind if I PM you for a pic? I will be on the lookout for the telltale signs of course.....
Cheers, Neil
Neil,
It took me 5 years to get a 21st title so yes they are scarce.

No problem for a picture so long as I'm back home at the time,
Regards,
Marcus
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  #10  
Old 18-03-14, 01:28 PM
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Resurrecting this thread for the members viewpoint on ebay listing number 321354215914.

For those who can't see it, the listing is for "ORIGINAL WW1 17TH WEST YORKS OTHER RANKS SHOULDER TITLES FROM THE LEEDS BANTAMS", and the pictures show "W.YORK", as per Westlake 881, and not Westlake 887 (LEEDS|W.YORK).

Does anyone have any proof either way as to which is correct? Is it possible that Westlake has this one wrong?

cheers,

Andy C
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  #11  
Old 18-03-14, 01:34 PM
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To my knowledge, the one I posted here is the correct one.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=38186

Regards

Simon.
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  #12  
Old 18-03-14, 03:17 PM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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This is interesting. Can I suggest the seller be contacted? I suspect he may know what he is talking about. Maybe the Bantams did wear these?

I suspect the seller is the author of a recently published Leeds pals book - although could be wrong.
Regards, Neil
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  #13  
Old 18-03-14, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Pearce View Post
This is interesting. Can I suggest the seller be contacted? I suspect he may know what he is talking about. Maybe the Bantams did wear these?

I suspect the seller is the author of a recently published Leeds pals book - although could be wrong.
Regards, Neil
I've already contacted him - I didn't want to prejudice any replies with that input. He stands by what he has stated & is an authority on the subject.

He is indeed brother of the author & co-owner of the Leeds Pal website.

It was just a huge surprise to me - and I was wondering if others had heard this before.

If the Bantams did wear this title, was it just them - or the regulars as well? Where was the differentiator (Cap badge - obviously).

What's your thoughts Neil?

cheers,

Andy C
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  #14  
Old 18-03-14, 03:47 PM
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I suppose it boils down to some photographic evidence in the end, or army orders etc.

Simon.
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  #15  
Old 18-03-14, 03:51 PM
Neil Pearce Neil Pearce is offline
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Hi Andy - pm sent
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