Fake HMS Badges

[Charlie585]

Hi Gents,

My second thread in this section today and an unfortunate one.

I'd just like to warn those that may have an interest in Hallmarked Silver badges to be on their guard.

I picked up what I mistook to be a nice genuine Tower Hamlets Rifles HMS Officer's badge at the Farnham fair last year.

Purchased from a seemingly nice genuine dealer, no reason to suspect this chap was upto anything dodgy though as I have the feeling that he will be surprised and disappointed to read this thread if he ever does.

Back tothe badge, I was successful last week in selling the badge on EBay although the price realised was what could be considered to be at the low end for this particular pattern. One of my forum friends was runner up in the bidding and it looks like he had a lucky escape!

Upon receipt of the badge the winning bidder was quick to contact me in order to point out that the badge was 100& fake and had been copied using the lost wax method. It is apparent from our correspondence that he is a genuine fellow and I have of course refunded him for the cost of the badge and all postage fees.

I'll have to put this one down to experience I suppose, not the first time lately I'm afraid to say but I just wanted to warn others to be careful and advise them to do their homework before laying out substantial amounts on such badges.

From recent experience and discussions with other collectors it seems that even those that are considered to be among some of the best dealers are turning up moody badges on an increasingly regular basis.

Caveat Emptor!

Ry

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Charlie585

Hi Gents,

My second thread in this section today and an unfortunate one.

I'd just like to warn those that may have an interest in Hallmarked Silver badges to be on their guard.

I picked up what I mistook to be a nice genuine Tower Hamlets Rifles HMS Officer's badge at the Farnham fair last year.

Purchased from a seemingly nice genuine dealer, no reason to suspect this chap was upto anything dodgy though as I have the feeling that he will be surprised and disappointed to read this thread if he ever does.

Back tothe badge, I was successful last week in selling the badge on EBay although the price realised was what could be considered to be at the low end for this particular pattern. One of my forum friends was runner up in the bidding and it looks like he had a lucky escape!

Upon receipt of the badge the winning bidder was quick to contact me in order to point out that the badge was 100& fake and had been copied using the lost wax method. It is apparent from our correspondence that he is a genuine fellow and I have of course refunded him for the cost of the badge and all postage fees.

I'll have to put this one down to experience I suppose, not the first time lately I'm afraid to say but I just wanted to warn others to be careful and advise them to do their homework before laying out substantial amounts on such badges.

From recent experience and discussions with other collectors it seems that even those that are considered to be among some of the best dealers are turning up moody badges on an increasingly regular basis.

Caveat Emptor!

Ry

Sorry to hear about that Ry. I got stung with a LG badge that seemed to be HMS, but on very close inspection (using a digital microscope) the badge was an unmarked version but the HM proved to be faked (the Lion wasn't quite waht it should have been). When dealers themselves get fakes made using lost wax, I guess this is just going to get worse...... unless someone is prosecuted..... But of the ones I am aware of that do this, I am sure they cover their backsides.
Stay lucky and all the best. David

[Alex Rice]

Hi Gents
Could somebody please explain what the 'Lost Wax' method is? How do you identify a badge that has been made like this compared to a genuine badge. It seems to be more and more of a minefield.
Thanks. Cheers,
Alex

[Peter Brydon]

Here is a link to an explanation.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-wax_casting

P.B.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Gents
Could somebody please explain what the 'Lost Wax' method is? How do you identify a badge that has been made like this compared to a genuine badge. It seems to be more and more of a minefield.
Thanks. Cheers,
Alex

Alex, Its described quite well on Wikipedia.
Ref diferences:- its a lot of hard work to get rid of the 'flashing' and the 'fineness' of the moulding meterial e.g. any lettering would probably be affected and the quality wouldn't be so good. I have used this method to make model kit parts - and they are a pig to get right with regard to size.
As we know only to well, there are quite a few unscrupulous sellers (and the odd dealer) around and I expect it to get worse.
I used to use this method to make small model parts that I wanted (say) rivet detail on and loco nameplates etc.
Its not easy unless you have a captive market - and badge collecting is one of them...... Watch out.
David

[Charlie585]

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the link PB and thank you David for your explanation of the process and its pitfalls.

I’m sorry to hear that you were caught out as well with your badge. I suppose that it must pay the people who do this quite nicely, so maybe it’s worth their while taking the risk and of course once the badge has changed hands a couple of times it may be very hard to find the source.

The tell tale signs on the badge in question were the lettering and overall finish of the badge, the type of lug/loop and the fact that the HM seems to have been cast into the badge rather than being stamped post production. I should add that the dimensions would also be wrong due to the casting process.

A valuable lesson learned having had this explained so at least something positive to retrieve the situation a little.

Regards to all.

Ry

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Charlie585

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the link PB and thank you David for your explanation of the process and its pitfalls.

I’m sorry to hear that you were caught out as well with your badge. I suppose that it must pay the people who do this quite nicely, so maybe it’s worth their while taking the risk and of course once the badge has changed hands a couple of times it may be very hard to find the source.

The tell tale signs on the badge in question were the lettering and overall finish of the badge, the type of lug/loop and the fact that the HM seems to have been cast into the badge rather than being stamped post production. I should add that the dimensions would also be wrong due to the casting process.

A valuable lesson learned having had this explained so at least something positive to retrieve the situation a little.

Regards to all.

Ry

It looks like I'd better get my one checked out too. Bu99er.

[Alex Rice]

Thanks for the link and explanations.
Cheers,
Alex