AAC cap badge: solid wm vs plated brass

[Luc]

After studying a "cough" few AAC cap badges with die flaws, I'm having the impression that the solid whitemetal ones and plated brass examples are slightly different.
Plated brass (pictures 1 and 2): nickel sheetmetal lugs or nickel plated brass lugs; most noticable die flaw above the eagle's head and beak.
Solid whitemetal (picture 3): brass but mostly copper lugs; noticable die flaws above the right wing, above and underneath the eagles head and beak and above the letter "C" as encircled.

Do fellow members have these types to confirm?

[Alan O]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...read.php?t=570

This is my nickel one which has 1940s provenence.

[cw2311]

Excellent information Luc, always appreciated.

Cheers

[Frank Kelley]

Good morning Luc,
You have got me wondering now, I will have to find all mine and take a close look at each of them in turn.
Regards Frank

[Luc]

Thanks Frank, I'm looking forward to hear your observations.

[cw2311]

Luc, Frank,

you guys obviously really really like AAC cap badges judging by how many you have between the two of you! I may have a few for sale if you’re looking to expand your collection!

[Luc]

Coogan, I believe you have my e-mail address so feel free to send me some pictures.

[Frank Kelley]

Good morning Luc,
Well I've just picked fifteen examples at random and have taken a very close look at each of them in turn and I concur with you, the early plated examples seem all to be much the same without any real variation.
I am seeing two differing white metal types now, the only really noticable differance are the size of the flaw underneath the eagles, from nose to tail, some have a much greater and far more notable flaw!
Really had never noticed this before, so thanks for pointing it out to me, not that it really matters though, they are not rare badges, but as the copies tend to look better, people will still go out and buy them instead, what fools they are!
Left to right, a plated example, worn in North Africa by an old friend in 2nd Battalion Parachute Regiment, I really do treasure this one, though, I have many others, a white metal example with less underneath flaw, a white metal example with rather more underneath flaw and white metal comparing amount of die flaw, both obverse and reverse.
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by Luc

Thanks Frank, I'm looking forward to hear your observations.

[cw2311]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Good morning Luc,
Well I've just picked fifteen examples at random and have taken a very close look at each of them in turn and I concur with you, the early plated examples seem all to be much the same without any real variation.
I am seeing two differing white metal types now, the only really noticable differance are the size of the flaw underneath the eagles, from nose to tail, some have a much greater and far more notable flaw!
Really had never noticed this before, so thanks for pointing it out to me, not that it really matters though, they are not rare badges, but as the copies tend to look better, people will still go out and buy them instead, what fools they are!
Left to right, a plated example, worn in North Africa by an old friend in 2nd Battalion Parachute Regiment, I really do treasure this one, though, I have many others, a white metal example with less underneath flaw, a white metal example with rather more underneath flaw and white metal comparing amount of die flaw, both obverse and reverse.
Kind regards Frank

Frank,

FIFTEEN you say! And I thought I was obsessive!

Thanks for posting the pictures, always good to hear others observations.

Cheers

[Luc]

Frank, thanks for your time to go over your badges, are the lugs on your plated badges also plated/sheetmetal?

Googan, I must confess I cropped the original picture. Am I obsessive now too?

[cw2311]

Sweet Baby Jesus Luc!

You're a sick man!!! (in a good way of course)

If you ever open a militaria store, I guess you could have a 'purchase by bulk section’. You definitely don't need anymore badges from me.

Cheers

[Frank Kelley]

Good evening Luc,
I have always found the sheet/clip type lugs to be really quite scarce, I only have a couple of examples, the rest are all normal copper lugs, I'm am really not to sure how many I actually have, I found eighteen examples in total this morning but I am sure that I do have some more, somewhere, I do also have several silver examples by Messrs Gaunt, five, I think, including the one on it's beret that I use for my avatar.
Is it possible to have too many?
Let me think about that for a few moments.
Okay, I've thought about it, no, it is not, you have to remember they were worn by the Parachute Regiment too.
To be quite honest though, I have just bought those that I have seen, I've been given a couple too, the plated example I photographed belonged to an old friend who is no longer with us, I have his medals too, but I have grown used to getting them for pennies on ebay in recent years.
They are not rare, if only they could all talk, but, you do see far more copies of the kings crown AAC around, these days, than real ones.
You are a man after my own heart Luc, good to talk to you!
Kind regards Frank Kelley

Originally Posted by Luc

Frank, thanks for your time to go over your badges, are the lugs on your plated badges also plated/sheetmetal?

Googan, I must confess I cropped the original picture. Am I obsessive now too?

[cw2311]

Frank,

Would you be so kind as to post a couple of your Gaunt silver cap badges?... I know they are quite rare and very desirable. Are they 2 or 3 lugs?

I'm not really sure why 3 lugs, but I have seen them like this. Can you shed any light as to why 3 lugs?

Cheers

[Frank Kelley]

I am a little surprised that you feel they are rare, I think that they are at best scarce, but, they can still be found, even today, as long as you are willing to pay the price.
To the best of my knowledge, they were all made with three rather large silver lugs, so much the same as their Royal Armoured Corps and Royal Tank Regiment, why, three lugs, I don't know, just something they did, often the top one was removed before wear.
They are a very fine looking badge, though, they do rather lack a little something when compared with their earlier wares from the Great War and before, but, at least from the obverse, there is little evidence of this.
As for hallmarks, the seventh Birmingham cycle was used, this had started in 1925 and ran until 1949.
So these badges range from "R" for 1941-42 to "V" for 1945-46, though, these latter are really rather rare.
The one that you encounter the most are those marked "S" for 1942, but, I think perhaps these are my favourite, I wish, those I have seen, could all talk.
For me, it is the men who wore these badges that provide the most interest and not the actual badges, though, they are nice things.

Anyway, back to the wartime other ranks badges, sorry to take your thread of track Luc

Originally Posted by cw2311

Frank,

Would you be so kind as to post a couple of your Gaunt silver cap badges?... I know they are quite rare and very desirable. Are they 2 or 3 lugs?

I'm not really sure why 3 lugs, but I have seen them like this. Can you shed any light as to why 3 lugs?

Cheers

[cw2311]

Frank,

Perhaps not that rare to guys like you and Luc who seem to have them by the pound. I’m in Canada and I can’t say I see the silver officer’s version very often here at all. I’ve also seen some two lug versions produced by Firmin.

Thank you very much for all the information! I enjoy seeing this stuff and learning more details.

Cheers