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  #16  
Old 15-07-17, 05:44 AM
tcrown tcrown is offline
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I've noticed major differences on the level of detail of the cross (St Andrew's?) at the top of the crown. On some, the cross is merely represented by an X. Could it give an indication about authenticity?
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  #17  
Old 15-07-17, 08:54 AM
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JBBOND JBBOND is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Thanks Jerry for sharing.
Can you post photos of the other side?

Sure
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fretted para 5.jpg (35.0 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg para wmetal lugger WWII badge 2 r.jpg (42.0 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Gaunt die white metal wings with flaws reverse.jpg (30.7 KB, 12 views)
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Jerry
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  #18  
Old 15-07-17, 10:12 AM
Jack8 Jack8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Martyn123 View Post
Many thanks jack. Is there plated badge the first type issued? Can these be wartime dated?

Regards

Martyn
Hi Martyn,

I believe that the first Parachute Regiment other ranks cap badges were made in white metal. In my opinion plating was a wartime economy measure to save nickel as the amount of nickel used in plating was less than the amount used in producing white metal.

Some badges such as the voided crown examples had a thin coating known as silver wash, which was a further economic measure.

Other regiments and corps also had plated badges, an airborne example being the Army Air Corps.

Jack
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  #19  
Old 15-07-17, 03:12 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jack8 View Post
In my opinion plating was a wartime economy measure to save nickel as the amount of nickel used in plating was less than the amount used in producing white metal.

Some badges such as the voided crown examples had a thin coating known as silver wash, which was a further economic measure.
That makes little sense to me, as brass was desparately needed for shell and cartridge cases, the reason for the introduction of the plastic badges in the first place, which should have been worn anyway.

On the 24th June 1942, a further ACI (1337/42) was published regarding the issue of plastic badges for the army. The ACI informed that in order to further conserve stocks of metal, it had been decided that in future the badges of all regiments and corps would be manufactured from plastic.

The white metal Parachute Regiment cap badge was sealed 25-3-1943, which contradicts ACI 1337/42. The plastic badge wasn't sealed until 5-2-1944 with the first contract being awarded on 20-8-1943 before the sealing of the badge. This all suggests the urgency of saving brass, or metal in general such as nickel, wasn't that strictly adhered to.

Rgds, Thomas.

Last edited by fougasse1940; 15-07-17 at 04:00 PM. Reason: date mix up
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  #20  
Old 15-07-17, 04:37 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Just from the photographs, I would say that all three are original.


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Good afternoon

What do people think of these para badges? Do they look original? The second one appears to be plated and the third is a collar dog.

Many thanks

Martyn
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  #21  
Old 15-07-17, 07:05 PM
tcrown tcrown is offline
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Default The cross on top of the crown

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
I've noticed major differences on the level of detail of the cross (St Andrew's?) at the top of the crown. On some, the cross is merely represented by an X. Could it give an indication about authenticity?
Two variants of the cross on photos. In my opinion, the one on the right is not genuine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NV_004_F with arrow.jpg (76.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg NV_008_F with arrow.jpg (34.8 KB, 23 views)
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  #22  
Old 15-07-17, 08:38 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Out of interest, why are you unhappy with the collar?


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Having read the blog, which is excellent and really well presented, I'm still unsure about my badges. I am less happy about the collar dog.

Regards

Martyn
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  #23  
Old 15-07-17, 10:07 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Two variants of the cross on photos. In my opinion, the one on the right is not genuine.
The cross on the ball, or monde, on top of the crown is just that, no connection to St Andrews. Your second image unfortunately is too small but I think it is just a makers variation.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #24  
Old 15-07-17, 10:24 PM
Martyn123 Martyn123 is offline
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Many thanks to all. I'm happy that you like my badges. I don't really know why I didn't like the collar I think that I have just become a bit sceptical since studying British badges.

So the opinion is that all of my badges are ok?

Many thanks for the useful information and help.

Regards

Martyn
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  #25  
Old 16-07-17, 05:46 AM
Martyn123 Martyn123 is offline
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I have my grandfather's National Fire Service badges from ww2. One is chrome plated steel and the other chrome plated brass so they must have carried on using this material for insignia for some time into the war. The steel one I would imagine is a later war one.

Regards

Martyn
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  #26  
Old 16-07-17, 10:19 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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I'm pleased for you, almost every time I see a collection of WW2 badges, it tends to be that the Parachute Regiment is the one badge that is wrong, I find this quite hard to understand, as although they have been done to death over the last forty years, there should still be more than enough original examples out there.
I suppose people are just drawn in by the price more often than not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn123 View Post
Many thanks to all. I'm happy that you like my badges. I don't really know why I didn't like the collar I think that I have just become a bit sceptical since studying British badges.

So the opinion is that all of my badges are ok?

Many thanks for the useful information and help.

Regards

Martyn
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  #27  
Old 16-07-17, 11:35 AM
Jack8 Jack8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Two variants of the cross on photos. In my opinion, the one on the right is not genuine.
In my opinion you are correct in that the badge on the right is not genuine.

Jack
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  #28  
Old 16-07-17, 12:13 PM
Martyn123 Martyn123 is offline
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Many thanks again everyone. I for one can't understand why there seems to be more fakes than genuine around as there must have been so many issued. Is it that people hang onto them more?

Martyn
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  #29  
Old 16-07-17, 09:40 PM
tcrown tcrown is offline
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Default Parachute Regiment KC Badge Main Variations

Thanks to everyone's contribution and to the various photos shared on this thread, I tried to summarize the main variations of the Parachute Regiment KC Badge that can be found. Of course I reviewed the excellent documentation provided by Arnhem Jim and borrowed one of the photo posted on his site.

Excluded from this review: Silver of silver plated insignias made mainly for officers by manufacturers like Gaunt of Firmin.
I wonít discuss the lug attachments variations and particularly the color of soldering as I donít have enough evidence. The distance between lugs might be different for voided and non-voided variations (bigger distance for the late one around 4cm).
The convergence pattern of the rigging lines for me is not a relevant characteristic and can be found with either voided or non-voided crown versions.

1 - Voided Crown Variations

- Crown shape: large vs rounded
- Edges of the inner wings: round curved vs straight curved (on the right, picture from O. Lockís book)

2 - Non-Voided Variations

- Brass alone (nickel plated or not) vs white metal
- Edges of the inner wings: round curved vs straight curved

The inner wings round curved pattern is somewhat close to the one that can be found on the plastic badge.

I would value other opinions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Crown Comparison.jpg (25.4 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Voided Inner wings.jpg (56.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Non Voided Inner wings.jpg (44.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Plastic_F.jpg (19.7 KB, 8 views)
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  #30  
Old 17-07-17, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack8 View Post
Hi Martyn,

I believe that the first Parachute Regiment other ranks cap badges were made in white metal. In my opinion plating was a wartime economy measure to save nickel as the amount of nickel used in plating was less than the amount used in producing white metal.

Some badges such as the voided crown examples had a thin coating known as silver wash, which was a further economic measure.

Other regiments and corps also had plated badges, an airborne example being the Army Air Corps.

Jack
I am sure you're correct, as I have an example that has been dug up and the nickel wash has come away leaving a brass badge.

T
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