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#16
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Hi Frank and all,
In delving into this I have now discovered a 2nd relative. This one on my mothers side of the family. 13071 T.C.J. Bennette Coy. 1st Regt. SAI who died 24 March 1918 aged 21. He also served in East Africa. He is buried at Pozieres Memorial Cemetery. I assume he died in the battle of the Somme. As the 4th SAI was a Scottish affiliated division as shown in Franks badges pic. would I be correct in assuming that the 1st SAI which had no Scottish connection had the same insignia minus the tartan and thistle on the shoulder titles? Cheers, Tony. |
#17
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Good gracious me, Sunday the 24th of March, what a remarkable day that was, a really desperate fight at Marrieres Wood, the SA Brigade was down to only five hundred at that point.
The 4th SAI was a regiment, within the SA Brigade and not a division, regarding the badges, each regiment within the brigade had it's own collar badges and numeral worn with their SA/ZA brigade shoulder titles. Quote:
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#18
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1 SAI wore the "goat-in-the-porthole" as cap badge in common with 2,3 & 4 SAI. Collar badges were a springbok face over a ribbon with motto. They were actually the inspiration for the "bokkop" badges worn by the SA Infantry Corps when it was created in the 1950s. Shoulder titles were either "South Africa -Inf-Zuid-Africa" or "SOUTH-AFRICA". The latter one more common in photos of officers.
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#19
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1 SAI wore the "goat-in-the-porthole" as cap badge in common with 2,3 & 4 SAI. Collar badges were a springbok face over a ribbon with motto. They were actually the inspiration for the "bokkop" badges worn by the SA Infantry Corps when it was created in the 1950s. Shoulder titles were either "South Africa -Inf-Zuid-Africa" or "SOUTH-AFRICA". The latter one more common in photos of officers but they didn't always seam to wear them so I don't know how official they were.
Last edited by milhistry; 29-04-17 at 03:10 AM. |
#20
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#21
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4 SAI again
Back to the SA Scottish. An interesting group photo of Officers. Note variety of headgear. Cap bands a la Scots Guards even!
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#22
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Nice photos milhistry. Thanks for sharing.
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#23
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My own little collection; still missing one 4th thistle Title.
Hope this helps a 1172.jpg a 1173.jpg regards, Iain
__________________
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre |
#24
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Milhistry,
when you refer to the "South Africa" title worn by Officers, do you mean the semi circular one? a 1178.jpg regards, Iain Quote:
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C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre |
#25
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Quote:
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#26
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Thanks Alex
the last time a Thistle title came up for sale, it sold for about R1.5 G
__________________
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre |
#27
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Quote:
Don't tell my wife, she'll sell mine... |
#28
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Hello Brian,
I would not consider any badges worn by rank and file members of the SA Infantry Brigade as scarce in particular, but, then I have not actually looked for them in recent years. I stand by my thoughts, in particular, my comments regarding the lack of badges in South Africa because of their greater value when sold out of the country. I have to say that I am rather circumspect with regard to the springbok and thistle titles, it was certainly suggested, to me as a boy, that they were intended to be worn on the greatcoat and they were bought, but, quite frankly, I have yet to see any real tangible evidence. Regarding officers, I don't think I have ever seen them worn by an officer and I do have a pair that were in the effects of a 4th SAI ranker who was wounded on the first day the regiment left their line and joined battle in July 1916, he was wounded and did not fight again, notwithstanding, whilst these could certainly have been added at a latter date, you will always get all these "experts" who will say that they were produced towards the end of the war and the same applies with the regimental buttons. The badges worn by officers are a very different matter altogether and from my experience of collecting, these can and certainly should, be, considered very scarce indeed, the OSD die cast service dress, regimental collar badges did not turn up in South Africa and despite being made here in Great Britain, they have very rarely appeared, there is certainly a finite number in existence today. In the particular case of the 4th Regiment, their handsome and rather disproportionately heavy, mercurial fire gilt, die cast copper cap, glengarry and bonnet badges are actually rare, in both sizes and always have been from my experience. Regards Frank Quote:
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#29
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I should also mention that there was a 4 SAI glengarry badge, which was a large version of the collar badge. There is one in the Old Fort MOTH museum (not on display) in Durban, still on a glengarry.
Must be incredibly rare. Cheers, Alex |
#30
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Alex,
I have seen one on a Atholl tartan Tammy, not a Glegarry but the owner didn't want to part with it; ( ) his Grandfather was at Delville Wood so I can understand. regards, Iain
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C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre |
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