British European Regiment buttons

[janner305]

Need some help identifying the following buttons.
They are all of British European Regiments of the East India Company's presidential armies.
The only one positively identified from the button itself is 0563, which is 3rd Bengal European Regiment.
o561 has BER above FUSILIERS, but is this Bengal or Bombay?
0562 has 2BER above FUSILIERS, same question?
0564 has 3 with EUROPEAN REGIMENT around the rim. This could be Bengal, Bombay or Madras, but which?
As all 3 presidential armies had Fusiliers Regiments, I am at a loss.

And on a wider point, There were a total of 9 European Regiments, 3 from each presidency, that were taken into the British army in 1862 after the mutiny, as the 101st to 109th Regiments of Foot.
Dose anyone out there have examples of the other 5 European Regiment buttons that I have not collected??

Regards,

Janner305

[Cribyn]

Hello

Button number 1 is for the 1st Bengal European Regiment, officer's pattern, 1846-1862.

Button 2 is the 2nd Bengal European Regiment, officer's pattern, 1850-1862.

Button 3 is the 3rd Bengal European Regiment, officer's pattern, 1854-1861.

Button 4 is the 3rd Bengal European Regiment, other rank's pattern, 1855-1862.

I only wish I had some of your "missing" buttons.

There was an excellent article on these buttons by John Chapple in an issue of the MHS magazine a few years ago. I think it was an "Indian Special" but I don't have the number or date.

Regards
Roger

[Cribyn]

Hello again

Just a quick follow-up as I have found the details of the Bulletin! The article was in Bulletin 189, August 1997, the "Indian Army Special Edition". Copies still available from the MHS website, price £1.00 plus postage. Well worth the money as there are two articles on Indian Army buttons! One by John Chapple and one by Howard Ripley.

Regards
Roger

[Wmr-RHB]

It is even more confusing then you explain. It all depends on the time scale how many of those regiments exist. The nine you mention were those that were transferred to the British army, but there were more. And I assume they also had buttons. Well, maybe not regimental ones as they were short lived and only existed during the Great Mutiny.
And some were changed from being light infantry to fusiliers and/or back.

Let us look from 1839.

1st Bengal (European) Regiment > 1841: 1st Bengal (European) Light Infantry > 1846: 1st Bengal (European) Fusiliers > 1858: 1st Bengal Fusiliers > 1862: 1st Royal Bengal Fusiliers > 1862: 101st Regiment of Foot (Royal Bengal Fusiliers).

2nd Bengal (European) Light Infantry > 1850: 2nd Bengal (European) Fusiliers > 1858: 2nd Bengal Fusiliers > 1862: 104th Regiment of foot (Bengal Fusiliers).

1854: 3rd Bengal (European) Light Infantry > 1859: 3rd Bengal Light Infantry > 1862: 107th Regiment of Foot (Bengal Light Infantry).

1858: 4th Bengal European Regiment > 1861: disbanded.

1858: 5th Bengal European Regiment > 1860: disbanded.

1858: 6th Bengal European Regiment > 1861: disbanded.

1st Madras (European Regiment > 1843: 1st Madras (European) Fusiliers > 1859: 1st Madras Fusiliers > 1861: 1st Royal Madras Fusiliers > 1862: 102nd Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers).

2nd Madras (European) Light Infantry > 1859: 2nd Madras Light Infantry > 1862: 105th Regiment of Foot (Madras Light Infantry).

1854: 3rd Madras (European) Infantry > 1859: 3rd Madras Infantry > 1862: 108th Regiment of Foot (Madras Infantry).

1st Bombay (European) Regiment > 1843: 1st Bombay (European) Fusiliers > 1861: 1st Royal Bombay Fusiliers > 1862 103rd Regiment of Foot (Royal Bombay Fusiliers.

2nd Bombay (European) Regiment > 1844: 2nd Bombay (European) Light Infantry > 1859: 2nd Bombay Light Infantry > 1862: 106th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Light Infantry).

1853: 3rd Bombay (European) Regiment > 1859: 3rd Bombay Regiment > 1862 109th Regiment of Foot (Bombay Infantry).

Hope this helps in narrowing down possibilities (also in the future). E.g. as you see there never was a 2nd Bombay Fusiliers, thus it must be Bengal.

[Cribyn]

Hello Janner305

Having just re-read Howard Ripley's article in the same MHS Bulletin mentioned previously, it would seem that your button number 4, "3rd European Regiment" may well have been a standard other ranks pattern used by all three of the Presidencies. So it may be for the Bengal, Bombay or Madras 3rd European Regiment.

As Henk says, quite a confusing situation!

Roger

[janner305]

Ouch!!!

But many thanks for the excellent and informative replies.

Janner305

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Cribyn

As Henk says, quite a confusing situation!

Roger

And we did not even touch the lineages before 1839.