New TRF for RLC & RE EOD Trng

[ianh67military]

To translate, there is a new badge for Royal Logistic Corps and Royal Engineer units training in Explosive Ordnance Disposal.

Called the DEMS Trng Regt, it is a standing figure of St George on foot, in silver grey, with a lance, fighting a yellow dragon on a green background. It's worn on the left sleeve on the MTP uniform.

Quantity 500 were made and issued VERY recently, 2 per person. A second production run is being organised. The PRI does NOT have any spare, nor was I able to pester one off the staff.

Grateful if any ATs or ATOs could get me 1!

A picture will hopefully follow, as soon as I can get it off the phone I was able to get a shot of it on (may take a while) edit: see post #8 below For Mike's pic.

Ian H

[ianh67military]

From Wiki:
Defence Explosive Ordnance Disposal Munitions Search Training Regiment (DEMS Trg Regt). DEMS Trg Regt has its Headquarters (HQ) at St George's Barracks Bicester. The Kineton part of DEMS Trg Regt remains the MoD's main training school for Ammunition Technicians and Ammunition Technical Officers of the Royal Logistic Corps (RLC) in the British Army. The school is located at MoD Kineton at Temple Herdewyke near Kineton, Warwickshire, England. Post Code CV47 2UL. DEMS Trg Regt is under command of the Royal School of Military Engineering (RSME) whose HQ is located in Chatham, Kent, UK.



So, the RLC Bomb Disposal training, coming under control of the Sappers? Not sure how that will pan out.

Ian H

[Mike Jackson]

Strange to see the abbreviation DEMS back after a 68 year absence!
DEMS.05.jpg
(Not to be taken seriously)

[fez]

I saw these a couple of weeks ago, as you say, no one has any spares yet
:-(

[DEMS Trg Regt]

DEMS Trg Regt is under command of the Royal School of Military Engineering (RSME) whose HQ is located in Chatham, Kent, UK.



So, the RLC Bomb Disposal training, coming under control of the Sappers? Not sure how that will pan out.

Ian H

Ian, if I can clarify. DEMS Trg Regt has been formed by the merger of the two precursor schools DEMSS(South) at lodge hill, chattenden, Kent and DEMSS(kineton) in Warwickshire. DEMSS(south) moved to Bicester in July 12. The merger commenced pretty much immediately with DEMS Trg Regt officially forming in dec 12 and being officially opened on 15 mar 13 by CGS.

whilst the merger sees the old HQ DEMSS disestablished and the new CO reporting direct to HQ RSME it is fair to note that DEMSS has been under command of RSME since 2008 and this has been working fine.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by ianh67military

It's worn on the left sleeve on the MTP uniform.
Ian H

Are you sure it is the left sleeve, as that would make it a Formation badge, not a TRF?

Marc

[fez]

I thought the guys at work had them on the right arm, i will have a look again tomorrow

[ianh67military]

Had the RLC TRF on the right arm, plus either AT or ATO, and were wearing the new badge on the left sleeve, all on MTP. Seen at ASA.

Regarding DEMS, I thought it meant Demolition, but then noticed that the unit signs had 'DEMS' in capitals and 'Trng Regt' with only the first letter as a capital. Had to Google what DEMS stood for and posted it here.

Marc - you are right, it's technically a 'formation patch', but the people I spoke to just called it the new TRF. They're probably more worried about pressure plates and EFPs though.

Ian H

[Mike_2817]

Here you go, its on the Left Arm under the Union Jack, and is indeed a Formation Sign for all the Permanent Staff within DEMS but not the Students.

The RE & RLC Personel still wear thier own TRF's

Kineton is also still home to the IEDD training and all C-IED Operators still attend the Felix Centre at Kineton.

It is based on a RAOC EOD Centre Piece hald at Kineton Sargeants Mess & Deepcut Officers Mess, and smaller copies at Kineton Officers Mess and at 11 EOD Regt.

As already stated, they are like hens teath at the moment.

[ianh67military]

Mike,
thanks for the photos.
Of course, that's what the unidentifiable piece of Regimental silver was in the Mess - it all makes sense now. I was too busy looking at the 'operator' statue and the chap climbing up from what looked like a RIB.

Ian H

[Mike_2817]

Oh yes, there is some nice Regimental Silver at Kineton, more so in the Sergeants Mess. The statue is based on the saying 'Feeling the breath of the Dragon' by ATO's in Northern Ireland.

[DEMS Trg Regt]

Originally Posted by ianh67military

there is a new badge for Royal Logistic Corps and Royal Engineer units training in Explosive Ordnance Disposal.

Called the DEMS Trng Regt, it is a standing figure of St George on foot, in silver grey, with a lance, fighting a yellow dragon on a green background. It's worn on the left sleeve on the MTP uniform.

Ian H

The DEMS Warrior does not represent St George - it's a coincidence that Bicester elements are based in st George's barracks - equally it does not represent Sigurd from Norse mythology ( or any individual figure ).

The DEMS warrior reflects the fact that the successful student, whether working in IEDD, clearing UXO, searching for explosives or indeed maintaining and moving ammunition, may find themselves, often alone, facing an explosive hazard (the dragon's fiery breath) armed with simple weapons, their knowledge/skills and personal courage .

The badge is a unit badge ( RSME has no formation badge) it is only worn on MTP, on the left arm, and is awarded to DEMS Trg Regt permanent staff from ALL three services once they have completed induction. It is not a TRF and navy, RAF and Army personnel continue to wear their service/ corps etc and qualification badges on the right arm.

The DEMS warrior replaced the old DEMSS badge which was an amalgamation of EOD and Search badges which did not represent the full diversity of the permanent staff which include infantry, RMP, Rsigs, RE, RLC, RAF, RN, Canadian and USN personnel.

There are no plans to sell the patch itself in the PRI at the moment - it is issued personally by the CO. however, the badge including different colour versions will be used on a variety of goods which will be available through the PRI in the future.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by DEMS Trg Regt

The DEMS warrior replaced the old DEMSS badge which was an amalgamation of EOD and Search badges.

Is anyone able to post an image of the above badge?

Marc

[Mike_2817]

The DEMSS North (Kineton) Badge was the old 'Army School of Ammunition' badge

Which was Crossed Swords & Flamming Touch (based on ATO Flash)

Not sure what DEMMS South (Chattenden) badge was ?

Enlarged



Never produced as far as I am aware in cloth

[DEMS Trg Regt]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

The DEMSS North (Kineton) Badge was the old 'Army School of Ammunition' badge

Which was Crossed Swords & Flamming Touch

Not strictly correct I am afraid. The old ASA badge was used for a very short time on course certificates for those attending the DEMSS(kineton) school - perhaps partly due to intransigence on the part of some at Kineton who may have felt that the asa badge was not represented in the new badge. The DEMSS Badge

Version 2a complete-small.jpg

Was brought in to incorporate aspects of the conventional munitions disposal Bomb, the ATO flash, a RN anchor and search REQUIRO eye all superimposed an the tri service colours. As you can see it has many colours, is quite complex and was designed by committee to keep everyone happy. Unfortunately, it is very expensive and complicated to reproduce and no one really warmed to it as a symbol. Try to design a race horse by committee and you get a camel!

To my knowledge it was never reproduced as a badge and its use was limited to signage and letterheads. Individual wings used their own insignia ( replicated on the coins) for their own t shirts etc.