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  #16  
Old 25-02-16, 11:44 AM
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Hello

I certainly agree with most of Rob's list of 'restrikes' (hope that doesn't upset Andy but I think David is right, these are genuine restrikes made using the original dies!) but I suspect that his QC RHG is a genuine, period issue button.

I have a lot of QC buttons (both gilt brass and anodised) with the 'Gaunt London' mark and I have never been in any doubt that they are genuine, issue buttons produced in the 1970s (or whenever) rather than being restrikes. After all, as btns mentioned, most collectors just did not want anodised buttons in the 1970s so there was no demand for restrikes of old anodised KC buttons and certainly not for buttons that were current QC issue.

I would love to see some of Gwen Squire's old sales lists if btns can dig them out! It seems strange that a lady who wrote two books (at least) for button collectors should become unhappy with the very people she inspired to collect but then that's life I guess!

Roger
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  #17  
Old 25-02-16, 01:09 PM
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Well I'm sure this was from a jar of similar RHG buttons at Newhaven Fort, and the wonky backmark with bits missing is typical of these restrikes.

If it looks a bit used that because I thought polishing buttons was a good idea when I was twelve.

Rob
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File Type: jpg rhg2.jpg (67.8 KB, 25 views)
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  #18  
Old 25-02-16, 01:22 PM
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I wonder if it is worth mentioning the distinct greenish hue of Gaunt London buttons backplates. I have always considered these as being a more recent manufacture. I'm not sure that I have seen this finish elsewhere.

GTB
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  #19  
Old 25-02-16, 01:48 PM
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Hello

The bits missing from the 'G' and 'T' of 'Gaunt' and the greenish tint are both typically found on restrikes but they are also found on genuine, 'current issue' buttons produced in the 1970s.

As far as I am aware Gaunt used their original dies for the face of the restrike buttons but they used the then current die for reverse with the backmark on. This is why a genuine wartime 27th Lancers button, for instance, has a backmark of 'J R Gaunt & Son Ltd London' (or similar) whilst the restrike has just 'Gaunt London', the backmark they were then using for virtually all the buttons they produced in and around the 1970s.

Incidentally it would seem that the greenish tint can be polished out with a bit of brasso and hard work but it still leaves a totally out of period backmark for a Second World War or earlier production button.

Roger
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  #20  
Old 25-02-16, 01:49 PM
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Hi Chaps

Several more interesting posts there!

First off, the blue/green tint which GTB mentions. Yes, that is present on many of the Gaunt restrikes, but by no means all.

As regards the RHG button specifically, this is one which has sparked debate in the past.

As Rob says, the broken/worn die used for the Gaunt backmark is another feature which appears on many of the restrikes but, again, not all. The problem is that when they manufactured the restrikes they appear to have simply used the backmark dies which they were using for all button production. One, or more, of these was obviously worn or defective. Unfortunately, just to confuse things, it's not unknown to find genuine buttons (usually anodised) with this same backmark feature.

To be honest I'm not sure if the RHG buttons are restrikes or not but I'm inclined to side with Roger and think they are probably genuine. Also, bear in mind that they were worn until 1969 and the restrike buttons were produced within a couple of years of that. Would they really need to reproduce buttons of such a recent vintage? Perhaps they were just selling off now obsolete stock?

David
PS.......

Roger had already covered some of my points by the time I submitted this!!!

Last edited by davidwyke; 25-02-16 at 01:58 PM.
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  #21  
Old 25-02-16, 02:01 PM
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Its possible that a batch of QC RHG buttons was produced for official use but then because of over production or because they were deemed to be rejects through quality issues they were sold off with the restrikes, I'm not sure what that would make them in the eyes of todays collectors, but I wouldn't sell this one as "Genuine".

Rob
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  #22  
Old 25-02-16, 02:07 PM
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Going back to the original question of WW1 Gaunt backmarks, there are some button types that can tie down a date to a very narrow window of use.

These Birmingham Battalion buttons must have all been produced between 1914 and 1915?

Rob
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  #23  
Old 25-02-16, 02:11 PM
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I definitely don't consider this button a fake/restrike
GTB
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  #24  
Old 25-02-16, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Its possible that a batch of QC RHG buttons was produced for official use but then because of over production or because they were deemed to be rejects through quality issues they were sold off with the restrikes, I'm not sure what that would make them in the eyes of todays collectors, but I wouldn't sell this one as "Genuine".

Rob
Few of the QC "metal" as opposed to A/A Household Div buttons are particularly good quality, whether by Gaunt or other manufacturers such as Pitt & Firmin. Not sure the defective backmark would make much difference as it couldn't be seen. Also, there are numerous genuine buttons with the same backmark, particularly anodised buttons.

David

Last edited by davidwyke; 25-02-16 at 05:04 PM.
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  #25  
Old 25-02-16, 02:30 PM
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Good point, but until now I had thought mine may be WW2 period, but now it looks like post 1949.

Rob
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  #26  
Old 25-02-16, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Miller View Post
Going back to the original question of WW1 Gaunt backmarks, there are some button types that can tie down a date to a very narrow window of use.

These Birmingham Battalion buttons must have all been produced between 1914 and 1915?

Rob
There are any number of buttons you can tie down to a narrow period of time going by the pattern of the button itself. The backmark on these two was certainly in use during WW1 but also long before and long after.

David
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  #27  
Old 25-02-16, 02:41 PM
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As regards the two Parachute Regt buttons, neither one is WW2.

GTB - no problem with it, O/R's c. very late 1940's or very early 1950's. They changed to anodised pre 1953.

Rob - possibly as above but I suspect it may be a restrike, sorry. Parachute Regt is another known restrike and yours has some of the signs. I might be wrong though. Hopefully Roger or someone else will have an opinion.

David

Last edited by davidwyke; 25-02-16 at 05:07 PM.
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  #28  
Old 25-02-16, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwyke View Post
As regards the two Parachute Regt buttons, both are O/R's but neither one is WW2.

GTB - no problem with it, c. very late 1940's or very early 1950's. They changed to anodised pre 1953.

David
Would it being a loose shank type help any re dating?
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  #29  
Old 25-02-16, 03:23 PM
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While on the subject. This beautiful large gilt officers spun-back KC KSLI button has the GAUNT. LONDON backmark in all its splendour. Can't scan the back as the shank is fixed and large. The backplate is more yellowish than the body (face).

GTB
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  #30  
Old 25-02-16, 03:39 PM
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I know of one button maker who was pestered by a designer that he had lost the art of making good quality gilded brass buttons. Both had worked together to produce current issue anodised buttons.
On his next visit the designer was presented with a batch of well made gilt buttons. Many of these ended up with collectors and they are the odd ones out.
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