Syria

[REMEVMBEA1]

There are no ifs and buts about it, we should keep our noses out of Syria. It's an Arab problem and the Arab league should sort it out. I never really had a problem with us reducing the forces but only with the proviso that we then reduced their commitments. As for young men joining the forces I think most did for exactly the same reason I did , to get away from home , travel and see the world. After 15 years in REME I still think that given the choice I would still do the same.

[Jibba Jabba]

I agree the United Kingdom is not a global super power, it should not be the dispenser of justice the world over. If chemical weapons have been used then it is for the United Nations Security Council to decide what is to be done, no one else.

Mr Cameron should remember, that in 1914 it was a group similar to El Q who assassinated the Arch Duke, which plunged the world into a global conflict. Let us not repeat that mistake.

[Eddie Parks]

What we have to remember is that the United Kingdom bears a very heavy moral responsibility for the whole Middle East problem. We created - or at least played a large part in the creation of - the artificial states of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel and Jordan and the resultant blood bath is our responsibility.
Eddie

[LONGSHANKS]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

What we have to remember is that the United Kingdom bears a very heavy moral responsibility for the whole Middle East problem. We created - or at least played a large part in the creation of - the artificial states of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel and Jordan and the resultant blood bath is our responsibility.
Eddie

Correct there Eddie on Iraq and Jordan, but Syria as I mentioned above in #2 was owned by the French, along with the Lebanon...not the British Empire.

We also set out the global shipping lane's. Does that mean we have to police those infinitum keeping them free of Pirates for the benefit of the world....I don't think so.....unless you think we should

[Charlie585]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

What we have to remember is that the United Kingdom bears a very heavy moral responsibility for the whole Middle East problem. We created - or at least played a large part in the creation of - the artificial states of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Israel and Jordan and the resultant blood bath is our responsibility.
Eddie

I disagree strongly with your comment Eddie.

Any misplaced sense of moral responsibility for the problems that are ongoing in Syria are far outweighed by the moral responsibility that is owed to our own population (let alone the rest of the world) if we consider the backlash that is sure to follow if we take it upon ourselves to get involved militarily in this one.

Yes we were involved in setting up some of the countries in the Middle East back in the days when we were a true global power and had the resources to back up our rhetoric.
Since then these countries have carved out their own path and if they are now facing civil revolt from their populations who it seems would prefer their own brand of tyranny to that which already exists then sad as it is for those caught in the middle of it, so be it.

My own opinion is that the risk of escalation of this situation to a wider area of conflict is highly likely and just what many in the region have wanted for some time, we risk playing in to their hands if we actively involve ourselves in military action, not least that outside of the framework of the UN, as seems to be the wish of our leaders.

We haven’t even yet established if it was Assad who is responsible for the recent chemical weapons attack and I am glad that there are those that seemingly have the sense to be advising caution and restraint as opposed to us rushing headlong into starting something that we have little chance of finishing given our current level of military strength along with our very real but generally ignored weakness on the home front due to the long term and ongoing poor management of our borders.

Ry

[LONGSHANKS]

I totally agree Ry. I mean if history is what we should be going by, then we should be governing half of France, as we use to own that.

The Middle East is an American problem (and product), look up "The Two Pillar policy" as they are the one's that forced us to hand it over to them after 1946 for the very reasons we all know......bankrupt due to the war.

If you look at the old Empire and track where today American base's are or were due to being turfed out (Iran). It's like a copy of our old Empire.

As Roosevelt said "I am not in this war to secure the future of an Imperial power like Britain". What he should have said to fully truthful, "I'm in it to relieve you of it and replace it, and there is nothing you can do to stop me"

They wanted it, they can have it...................... and police it.

The British should accept the benefits of the Middle east oil and the rest of the world's resources, just like the rest of Europe and world did when we had the big stick.
No one else had skin in the game as they say, when the regiments we all like to collect were sent round the world to keep it in order.

Those badges for the future to collect for this reason should be US Marine Corps etc, and not the counties of Britain.

Simon.

[Peter Brydon]

My concern is that if we "light the blue touch paper" would we then be able "stand clear " or would we be starting a global conflict if we get involved in the way that Dave appears to want?

P.B.

[LONGSHANKS]

Very true P.B.

What you have to remember is that Russia will not let this get "one" sided. Syria is the only "friendly" access it has to the Mediterranean, look at a map. It's been their issue for centuries, warm water ports; hence their original interest in Afghanistan in 1979, and look what happened there.

They will not allow their one last friend in the Middle East to fall............well not without a fight anyway.

Simon.

[Charlie585]

Let’s look at it this way;

We seeing ourselves as the conscience of the world hit Syria, Syria responds by attacking soft western targets along with an all out assault on the anti Assad rebels which leads us to increase our level of force. Relations between the west and Russia in the mean time deteriorate to an all time low and the rhetoric increases to dangerous levels.

Bearing this in mind Syria decides that the best way to get at the west and gain support from the Arab world is to use its arsenal on Israel whilst it still has the chance. Israel of course responds in kind which leads a willing Iran to join the conflict. America can’t be seen to let Israel fall so they go full pelt at Iran as well as Syria, Russia now has no choice other than to protect her interests and wades in too.

In the mean time hoards of Islamist fifth columnists launch an all out assault against the countries of the west on their own shores.

Seeing that our armed forces are somewhat busy Argentina invades the Falklands knowing full well that this time we haven’t a hope in hell of taking it back. We do though send what is left of our Navy (minus any air cover) as a protest in hope that Argentina will give in peacefully but they laugh in our faces when the Spanish noting our lack of capability seize the opportunity to take back Gibraltar.

Seeing this, Dave bottles it and throws in the towel knowing that he is doomed politically. Miliband quickly moves to make peace with Russia which insists on nothing but unconditional surrender to which he willingly agrees but in the mean time what remains of our army which is mainly TA has been rounded up and beheaded in the street and the red flag over Downing Street is quickly replaced by a black one!

All because we felt a misplaced moral responsibility over a situation that wasn’t really our business.

Oh and what was left of Syria's chemical weapons stock is now in the hands of al Qaeda.

Rule Britannia!

[Old Smelly]

Since the announcement of possible strikes on Syria shares in Raytheon have reached a record high
Lee

[Charlie585]

Maybe those shares will level off now that the vote in parliament has been cast and gone the way of the NO's.

Christina Fernandez is no doubt sobbing into her Malbec and the Spanish fishing fleet is returning to port.

Dave gets it has gone home to throw his Teddy against the wall and Red Ed is to receive the Russian order of honour. Our Navy still has no air cover to look after the few rowing boats we have left and the TA are back down the pub.

The Middle East will continue to remain as a basket case for the time being but it might pay to keep an eye on events as it aint over yet.

Rule Britannia!

Ry

[High Wood]

Not forgetting that all the fighting is only a few short miles north of the plain of Megiddo in northern Israel.

[GriffMJ]

Let the Americans and the French sort it out..... we have spent enough money .... for little or no return. I look forward to eating Syrian food in a restaurant thats bound to be opening near me shortly

[Charlie585]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Let the Americans and the French sort it out..... we have spent enough money .... for little or no return. I look forward to eating Syrian food in a restaurant thats bound to be opening near me shortly

No doubt opened by one of the refugees who has managed to get out already when we are soft enough to take them in.

If the balloon goes up with Israel the rest of them that have stayed in Syria will be sticking their heads between their legs and kissing their arses goodbye!

This one still has something of the course to run yet and I don't think it is going to be a happy ending.

Ry

[jubilationtcornpone]

Regarding the curran situation in Syria I am reminded of this quote from Will Rogers, "If there was an egg-laying contest in Czechoslovaka, and we could find it, we would go and lay more eggs than anyone." Still true I'm afraid.

Don