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#16
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Hi Tim
Very true Anything is possible ... Interesting re allocation of new number on Commission. I had wondered if this might explain the dropping of a digit. Having checked a couple of other names in the link you added - to see if the same numbers were used in subsequent gazettes - I did find they were the same. We could do with that 'copperplate' ledger you mention. If I can get access to more Army lists, like the April 1944 one Jon (Postwarden) looked at (post 6), I will try to find when 'Special Service' started to appear for AHA Emery ... I am fairly certain he must be our man Thanks for your interest Tim - much appreciated Mike |
#17
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Hi Mike,
Not sure if you found or have ruled out this chap. Paul |
#18
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Hi Paul
Very many thanks for pointing RJ Emery out. There was a bit of a discussion on the Commando Veterans Association site about the possibility it could be him. As you kindly point out in your posting - It was noted Capt Reginald Emery, R Norfolk Regt served in No.6 Cdo. No service number was given but the proposal built up quite a 'head of steam'. As No.6 Cdo served in North Africa there was a possible (perhaps tenuous) link to ME Cdo knives. I did some digging in the No.6 Cdo war diary and found: Capt RJ Emery, is NOT noted on Field Returns for 19 December 1942, or 2 January 1943 when No.6 Cdo was in North Africa (Nov 1942-May 1943). However, it remained possible that Capt RJ Emery may have acquired the knives subsequently. The first reference to Lt RJ Emery is when he was in charge of Group C4 for Exercise Regency, planned for either 8-9 July 1943 or 13-16 July 1943. Unfortunately no service number or parent regiment is provided. The next reference I have is on 20 September 1943 when he goes on a mule training course in Scotland. Your posting helpfully adds details of subsequent service in North West Europe. I also unearthed a record for Lt RJ Emery No.6 Cdo with parent Regiment of Lancashire Fusiliers (rather than Norfolk Regiment) and Service No.262301 Either of the above sets of 'records' may be linked to the knives in some way - perhaps even being different people from the same family (perhaps doubtful). What threw favour on the RAOC chap (Alan Harry Augustus Emery - 126533) is the similarity of Service Number (12633) recorded on the knives - and the reference Jon found in the Army list to his 'Special Service' - the problem is padding this out. Many thanks for your help Paul, and to everyone who does not mind me 'banging on' about this puzzle. It is just that I value the opinions and help we gain through this Forum. There will be an answer ... just need to nail it Mike |
#19
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Mike,
Have you been able to find any other London Gazette entries for Alan Harry Augustus EMERY apart from his initial commissioning in 1940? I have tried but so far without success. This is odd given his subsequent promotion(s) and that he was apparently married/divorced in 1964. I wonder if his "Special Service/Employment" was of a classified nature - not with the Commandos but perhaps with SOE or MI6 etc. this might explain the dearth of published information? Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest." |
#20
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Hi Tim
Many thanks for your continued interest I have found nothing more in the London Gazette and am coming to the same point you suggest ... it is all quite odd. His inclusion in Burkes peerage may suggest connections in the right places for such employment. Still retaining an open mind - but yet another viable option. Sincere thanks for the time you have taken to dig into this Mike |
#21
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I thought you would of turned that stone over, Good luck on your search. Paul |
#22
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His name does not appear in the index of Charles Messenger's 'The Middle East Commandos' but I'm sure you checked that already yourself. Rgds, Thomas. |
#23
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Hi Thomas (Fougasse 1940) - good to hear from you.
I am not an expert on knives but gather from independent expert opinion the wear to scabbards confirm they are a perfect match for long paired items. The staining/marking/wear to the leather scabbards do suggest a perfect match for each knife. I recall the two knives were very slightly different and hence the ability to be sure each knife was in the correct scabbard. Nevertheless, I agree it is right to ask such questions. Thanks for your interest. I appreciate your thoughts and any other ideas from the Forum. .................................................. ......................................... A POTENTIALLY INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT Tim (Grey-Green-Acorn) and all Since you suggested of an SOE connection I recall the Middle East Commando knife appeared popular within Force 133 - I have now checked the London Gazette for Donald Hamilton-Hill author of SOE Assignment and a member of Force 133. A Middle East Commando knife appears on the cover of his book (in the edition I have) This has proved very interesting First appears ... 15 Dec 1939, where he is listed as 108363 - Camerons - Emergency Commission 25 Nov 1939. The next reference to him I can find is 23 May 1946 where he is listed under Camerons as Maj (temp) HD Hamilton-Hill - 108363 - receiving a Mention in Despatches in recognition of gallant and distinguished service in the Mediterranean Theatre. Like my search for Emery I can find no more (ie I can not find promotions for Hamilton-Hill or Emery). I STAND TO BE CORRECTED IF ANYONE CAN FIND MORE. However, Is it possible, given these apparent similarities, that Emery served with Force 133, or similar organisation? I retain an open mind but IF my findings are correct this must be a possibility. THOUGHTS OF ANY FORUM MEMBERS WELCOME Many thanks Mike |
#24
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Having spent some time researching WW2 British officers on the London Gazette website I have noticed that an individual Officer can often 'disappear' after his commission or, is rarely mentioned again until he relinquishes his commission. His full name only appears in the commission entry with his initials being used in subsequent entries. Once you have his official number he should be easier to find.
To find details of promotions, I use online Army Lists but these never give the service number so there can still be some leg work involved. There should only be one Army Officer with a particular number but a search can bring up a RN or RAF member with the same number. I can find only one entry for Cpl Alan Harry Augustus Emery who is commissioned with the number (126533) There is a Sgt William Ronald Ainslie who was commissioned with the number (E/C12653) Reginald James Emery (262301) gets only one entry in the London Gazette. Last edited by High Wood; 21-09-17 at 09:33 AM. |
#25
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Quote:
36 Beach Brick (71 Indep Coy, Queen's) (Reserve Beach Brick for 104 Beach Sub Area) 71 Indep Coy, Queen's commanded by Capt RG Graham, wef 1 Jun 43 formed a special unit RE Works Coy in ME with tasks of "beach development". Landed Salerno Aug 43. To UK 1 May 44. 11 Jun 44 landed Gold Beach (King) (Mont Fleury) (104 Beach Sub-Area). By Sep 44 the beach was cleared and the unit was employed on guard duties including POW guards. In Oct 44 the unit worked in Boulogne and Calais on beach tasks. Located Calais in May 45 and was disbanded 20 Sep 45. |
#26
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High Wood
Many thanks for your continued interest and guidance. I much appreciate you informing me of your own experience with Officers disappearing from London Gazette entries between initial commission and relinquishing commission. It acts as a word of caution, in that I should not assume there is anything unusual about Emery's record going cold. I wish I had enough details to request his service record, but I believe I need a Death Certificate and I do not know where or when he died. I have come across the duplication with RAF records, and Indian Army records where Service Numbers appear the same as for British Army Officers etc. Regards Mike .................................................. .......................................... Mike Although the Officer in question is not the Emery I am interested in, I always find the composition of Beach Groups interesting. They are a minefield, and their complexity appears almost unfathomable. I recall Len Whittaker doing a separate study of Beach Groups and his findings were a real maze from my recollection. Many thanks for sharing this additional information Mike Last edited by Mike B; 21-09-17 at 03:10 PM. |
#27
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Mike,
I am pleased that my random thoughts were useful to you. The 1944 Army List 1st Quarter 1828a has the following. Regular Army Emergency Commissions. Administrative Branch. 2nd Lieutenants. Emery. A.H.A. (W/S Lt 6/10/41), (T/Capt 12/8/43). Spec Emp. 6/4/40 The last date is that of his first commission. Simon |
#28
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Simon
Extremely useful summary thank you Yes - all thoughts appreciated ... You have helped me in the past too and I value your opinion The early reference to 'Special Employment' is tantalising. At that time (6/4/40) we were kicking off irregular formations such as Independent Companies etc. Many who got involved with them had subsequent irregular service in a number of guises. But I guess 'Special Employment' could mean all sorts of things. The fact this query relates to two Middle East Commando knives bearing the name 'Emery' and related service number (albeit missing one digit) continues to perplex me. Regards and thanks again for your help Mike Last edited by Mike B; 21-09-17 at 03:18 PM. |
#29
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The special employment does not date from 1940. It is a peculiarity of how the Army Lists are structured. The special Employment was his current status at the time the List was compiled and for some strange reason the date first commissioned appears last.
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#30
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Simon
Many thanks for the clarification - I am learning all the time. Mike |
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