British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Canadian Military Insignia > Airborne and Special Forces

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25-10-16, 06:12 PM
Harry Katyn Harry Katyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Default REQUEST FOR HELP TO AUTHENTICATE CLOTH AIRBORNE INSIGNIA

Although I have been collecting Special Forces insignia for many years Canadian Airborne badges have not been my primary interest and as such I do not have access to the more recent excellent publications on the topic. (My principal source being Grimshaws’ booklet on the subject.)
Having never handled authenticated Canadian A/B insignia I would appreciate the forum members’ opinions on the authenticity (or not) of the badges I have gathered up over the years.
I am particularly interested in dating the para wings and ascertaining if any of them are of the wartime issue types.
Thanking you in anticipation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 1 Front.jpg (41.5 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 1 Rear.jpg (50.0 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 2 Front.jpg (44.2 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 2 Rear.jpg (48.8 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 3 Front.jpg (36.0 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 3 Rear.jpg (40.5 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 4 Front.jpg (42.4 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian Para Wings 4 Rear.jpg (46.4 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian M1943 AB S Title Front.jpg (39.2 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Canadian M1943 AB S Title Rear.jpg (48.5 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25-10-16, 09:11 PM
Arnhemjim's Avatar
Arnhemjim Arnhemjim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Arizona Territory
Posts: 299
Default WWII Canadian Airborne Brevet identification

Hello "Harry",
Am not certain that you will find all your answers here, but hope it will prove of some assistance. See; http://arnhemjim.blogspot.com/2013/0...ification.html .

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26-10-16, 07:53 PM
Tonomachi Tonomachi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 284
Default

According to my reference your first two Canadian paratrooper wings are definitely post WW2 and worn circa 1951 through 1971. One of the ways you can tell is by the backing material. The first has that heavy tight weave shinny dark material and the second has that shinny (starch) open weave dark backing material. The second two are probably earlier pieces but also post war. The problem with these is that they were worn during WW2 and continued to be worn after WW2. With these I believe if they are sewn on a particular way they have a better chance of having been worn during the war. Normally the wing tips arch up slightly. If they were sewn on a uniform with the wing tips stretched outward eliminating the wing tip arch and have retained this shape having been sewn on for over 70 plus years I believe they are WW2. However they were also sewn on with the arch during WW2. The only way to be sure is with provenance as I have one in my collection which I obtained from the person you removed it from a WW2 uniform and it was stretched out and padding added underneath. This has been my observations over the years. Your last piece looks like a WW2 shoulder sleeve patch as I don't think they were worn after the war but I could be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 26-10-16, 11:10 PM
edstorey edstorey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 791
Default This Will Help

For only $39.95 this will answer your questions.

http://www.servicepub.com/jump%20wings.htm
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 27-10-16, 04:29 PM
Tanker Mike's Avatar
Tanker Mike Tanker Mike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,116
Default

The AIRBORNE CANADA flashes were worn at the jump school at Rivers Manitoba starting in April 1943. My rule of thumb is that any startch back wing is post war.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 27-10-16, 06:35 PM
Harry Katyn Harry Katyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Default Thanks for all your help

Thanks for all your helpful replies.

I had checked various websites and other relevant threads on the Forum before I uploaded my photos but I was finding it difficult to match all the characteristics of a single 'type' of para wing to a single example of my own. Additionally I am not fully aware of the characteristics and quality of Canadian badges the 'fakers' are producing or those for the 're-enactment' market.This was particularly true of the shoulder title as this is the only example I have physically encountered.

Para wing 3 came off a moth eaten '1954 Patt' battledress (dated 1963) badged to the 22nd Royal Regt - the eternal optimist in me hoped it was a surplus wartime wing. (You can always dream!)

I knew you experienced forum members would be able to give me definitive answers and/or direction. I have a couple of metal 1st Canadian Para Bn Cap badges that I have doubts about their authenticity that I will upload onto another thread for your opinions.

Many thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-10-16, 03:28 AM
3battalion's Avatar
3battalion 3battalion is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Posts: 798
Default

Hello Harry,

I believe all your wings date from 1949 on. Canadian wings are very difficult to date even with the appropriate reference. I tend to look for white backing material to the reverse as this is often seen on wartime wings - please see attached a photo of a combination Type 1 and 3 Wing.

Regards

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Type 1 and 3.jpg (45.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Type 1 and 3 Back.jpg (50.7 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-11-16, 04:32 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Cdn parachute qualification wings are very difficult to date, especially those attributed to wartime. The reference is helpful, but one can go nuts trying to conclusively id the patterns, even with the images.
As indicated above, all the wings in the images are post war, . The pattern with the mesh backing and scalloped edge were the last issue, sometime in the early 60's. On the other side of the question, there are no "phoney" wings other than the Patch King types that are on the market.
The shoulder title is okay.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:42 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.