Royal Scots with backing disc

[mooke07]

Hi all,

Picked up this Royal Scots BM badge that has a WM backing disc and north-south tabs to hold it in place. The backing disc will then hold in the cloth backing to the WM centre of the badge. The backing cloth is green and I think this denotes the second battalion. I have scrolled through 10 of 20 threads on Royal Scots badges to no joy.

I had not seen this before and wonder what period this badge dates from and was it an ORs badge or NCOs etc.

Cheers Dean

[mooke07]

Reverse

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Dean
Thanks for the interesting pics. I must admit I have never seen a R.Scots badge with a "built-in" backing plate before and I guess this must be early. You are correct in thinking that green denotes the 2nd Battn ... it would be nice if the cloth is original. Do you think it might be? Hopefully the R.Scots experts might be able to elaborate re dates etc. but anyway a nice "find". Regards Jeff

[Alan O]

I have never seen one like that. The cloth looks to be the correct green for the 2nd bn,

It's not an issued badge to my knowledge so possibly commercially sold?

[mooke07]

Thanks Jeff and Alan for insights,

The oval green cloth appears glued to the metal disc. The badge is well struck but the disc makes me feel it is of more modern era.

Interesting one nevertheless, cheers Dean.

[Neil M.ex14/20H.MAN A.C.F]

Hi Dean....i have one in my collection with red backing for the 1st Bn, I think they were a recent(pre 2006) private purchase thing.
Neil

[mooke07]

Thanks Neil - makes it one of the least old badges in my collection, cheers Dean.

[Jeff Mc William]

RS aa Staybrite.jpg

Many thanks Dean, an interesting thread. Whilst on the subject of R.S badge backings, does anyone have any idea when the large diameter red cloth disc was used ? (see attachment)
I have a feeling it was only a short-lived practice and probably only on the aa badges. I believe in some cases it was the full diameter of the badge !
Would be interested to know the dates involved. Regards. Jeff

PS: With regard to your badge Dean ; I am sorry to disagree with Neil but there was no 2nd Battn after 1949, so I don't think your badge can be "recent"

[mooke07]

Thanks Jeff - indeed the front of the badge in particular shows some age now I look at it in daylight, pre-1949 I am happy with.

I hope a member can answer your question on the oval disc, cheers Dean.

[Advsmt]

Very interesting badge Dean. As Jeff says the 2nd Btn ceased to exist in 1949 so Bloomer talking about green backing in '69 (though it may be just confusing text) is wrong.
You have the original bi-metal badge in your album, the solid centre, with "The Royal Scots" title. The voided bi-metal started in 1890 and ran at least until the aa appeared in 1960 (?). Bit of plastic of course in WWII. My understanding is that the "early" voided badges have the brass inlaid into the white metal, pre the economy all brass? You can see the distinct edge where they meet. Now I'm not saying all pre-economy badges were made this way but I don't think they were made after this date. So can it be said that your badge is in all probability post-WWI?
The other talking point would be the green backing and whether it is period to the badge? Probably never know? It's a real pity that all these early reference books never show or comment on the back of the badges!

Bryan

[mooke07]

Thanks for the input Bryan - Bloomer has a few errors but I do find it quite useful to reference relative dates and badge styles. I too wish there was greater focus on the rear of badges and the backings etc. Interesting thoughts on manufacture of these badges, cheers Dean.

[KLR]

Bryan, most of these "early reference books" are what I call collectors books and are devoid of anything I would call a 'reference' - though K&K occasionally give date of sealing etc (though not all correct as the RACD ledgers were not made public until about 1990 after K&K was published).

Anyway, I found quite a lot of information about badge backings etc in
TNA WO 32/12979 54 General A 88. Dress distinction for Regiments and Corps.

I would also suggest looking up 'Black Watch' in the TNA catalogue - I found quite a few useful files on the King's this way - mostly in WO32.

happy hunting

Great thread Dean !
J.

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi everyone ! Me again :
Sorry to keep "coming back" on this topic, but it is one that has both fascinated and puzzled me for some time now ;
Does anyone know of an RS plastic badge with a green backing plug ? If not ... why not ?? I cannot understand this apparent anomaly and would be grateful if someone can enlighten me. Regards Jeff

[Alan O]

Quite simply the WD only catered for the red backing as that was worn by all other of the Regular, TF, HG and cadet Bns in WW2 with only the 2nd Bn having a regtl distinction.