Authenticity of badges

[Khyber]

Hi
I've only recently started collecting badges, to Indian Regiments only. I find that a lot of dealer websites stock cap badges in the 10 GBP - 50 GBP range that are lacking in quality, described as die cast in brass or white metal. Are these badges genuine, in the sense that were these ever worn by anyone from the particular regiment and later sold by family members as happens with medals? or are they just copies? I find many of them very tawdry and the workmanship very poor. Except for the hallmarked silver badges which are very good but expensive.

So if I opt to buy any non-silver badges are they the real thing? I know a lot of German Third Reich badges are faked. Does that happened with Indian badges as well.

Please advise.
thanks and regards

Sunil

[peter monahan]

Sunil

The $64,000 question! I have been dabbling - I emphasize that word - for about 40 years now in IA badges and the vast majority are described, as you say, as ' die-cast', 'bazaar made', 'sand cast' or some other term which implies lesser quality.

British/Canadian/Aussie, etc. badges are die-struck and so, until the dies wear, generally of good quality and a cast badge is usually a repro/fake. This is not the case for Indian badge, as many were made locally for regiments who, until at least 1918, bought a lot of their uniforms and equipment from local contractors, where other armies used a central supply system. I have also seen quite a number of modern Indian and Pakistani badges which are cast, often of indifferent quality but which I'm confident are real issue pieces, especially those to paramilitary police and second line units such as the various Pakistani border units, rangers and militias and some IA regular units. Presumably a cost saving measure.

It is also the case that there are a lot of fakes out there, especially for the Gurkhas, who are very 'collectable' by those who love the so called 'hard core' and 'elite' units. In the 1930s there was a typo in the IA Dress Regs. - for the 3rd Battalion, 9th GR - which led to the manufacture by bazaar wallahs of a '39' Gurkha Rifles badge. Then in the retreat from Burma the remnants of 3GR and 9GR briefly amalgamated - a friend of mine was there - and jokingly called themselves the '39th'. The badges still surface from time to time but I am certain that they were never worn by a unit of the Indian Army. Long winded, I know, but I hope you take my point: its confusing!

So, no easy answer but don't despair. This forum and others have some very very knowledgeable members and all are very helpful in my experience. Try contacting and joining the Indian Military History Society too, whose president is ex-Gurkha and whose members are all passionate about the old British Indian Army. And read books! If the way to get to Carnegie Hall is 'Practice, practice, practice!, the way to happiness in Indian Army collecting is 'Research, research, research!'

Peter

[Khyber]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Peter. appreciate it very much. I guess the bottom line is caveat emptor. The forum is interesting and informative and there's lots to learn of course and am glad to be a member.

Rgds

[Roobarb]

I can echo Peter's recommendation to join the 'Indian Military History Society'.

An essential and invaluable organisation and a damn fine read to boot.

[Mike Jackson]

Not Indian, but close - the-then Royal Nepalese Army - some brand new badges as issued c 2002. Dreadful quality but absolutely authentic.RNA.02.jpg
RNA.03.jpgRNA.04.jpg

[peter monahan]

Point well made, Mike.

It's odd and perhaps ironic that many of us in this mass production society claim to value 'hand crafted' things, but then turn our noses up at things clearly made by hand because they are blemished or simply not as polished and shiny as what the machines stamp out.

Yes, these are pretty dreadful quality by modern [Western?] standards, but they would clearly serve to identify the wearers which is, after all, their purpose. But I digress!

[Roy]

Greetings Gents,

Thank you for this thread, which I very much enjoyed reading. I do not collect Indian badges but have often been tempted and may be something I look at in the future, so this thread was interesting and helpful. I would most certainly love to see some nice/original examples if anyone has them to share?

Best wishes, Roy.

[GriffMJ]

One of the books might be worth a mention here as well.... COX's.

[peter monahan]

The Nepalese examples are quite typical of modern stuff which is certainly real but, as has been pointed out, doesn't match Western views of 'good quality'. Lots of Pakistani and Indian badges of the same sort out there. To quote a catch phrase, 'It is what it is.' I still find them fascinating for the history of the units and the fact that they represent two large and significant armies.

Thanks for sharing them, Mike.