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  #1  
Old 04-02-10, 03:34 PM
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DougSA DougSA is offline
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Default Merchant Navy uniform - P&O WWI ???

Can anyone tell me where to find information about the uniform & insignia of the merchant navy during WWI?

My reason for asking is that I would like to identify the uniform/insignia on the attached photo - which shows my great-grandfather (right) and his brother. I understand that my great-grandfather served with P&O during 1916-1919.

Any assistance appreciated!
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File Type: jpg photo.jpg (32.3 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg photo - cap.jpg (19.2 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg photo - cap (2).jpg (16.7 KB, 43 views)
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  #2  
Old 04-02-10, 04:01 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is online now
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Default Merchant Navy

Hi Doug
The guy standing (GG-father) looks like he is wearing a Royal Navy Transport cap badge, which was a forerunner of the Royal Fleet Auxilliary. I don't know much about it's history though.
The second badge looks like a ratings badge which is a rising sun over an anchor. I am familiar with the badge but can't remember which company it was but have my doubt that it was P&O. The only P&O badge I know has the naval coronet above the house flag.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alex
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  #3  
Old 04-02-10, 05:35 PM
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"Merchant Navy" didn't exist in WW1 as I remember it was the "Mercantile Marine"
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  #4  
Old 07-02-10, 08:35 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier View Post
"Merchant Navy" didn't exist in WW1 as I remember it was the "Mercantile Marine"
Thats correct Tom, the term Merchant Navy came into useage in 1922 when the king bestowed the title upon the Merchant Service (also known as the Merchant Marine or Merchantile Marine) in recognition of the service and sacrifice they made in the great war! The gentleman sitting down is wearing the insignia of the Orient Line which merged with P&O.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-10, 08:50 PM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Hi Doug
The guy standing (GG-father) looks like he is wearing a Royal Navy Transport cap badge, which was a forerunner of the Royal Fleet Auxilliary. I don't know much about it's history though.
The second badge looks like a ratings badge which is a rising sun over an anchor. I am familiar with the badge but can't remember which company it was but have my doubt that it was P&O. The only P&O badge I know has the naval coronet above the house flag.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi Alex, you are right the P&O badge is as you described and I believe has always been so! The RN Transport Service however was,not the forerunner of the RFA , the RFA came into being in 1905, though saying that it existed alongside the Merchant Fleet Auxiliary and other govenment transport organisations for some time. If anything the RN transport Service was the forerunner of the Supply and Transport Organisation - Navy (STON) which is presently part of the Defence Logistics Agency (DLO) and has personnel working on RFA vesssels.

Regards Tony

Last edited by sailorbear; 08-02-10 at 04:43 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-02-10, 07:04 AM
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Default P & O badge button

Here is the P&O button with the rising sun emblem
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  #7  
Old 08-02-10, 11:03 AM
sailorbear sailorbear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btns View Post
Here is the P&O button with the rising sun emblem
Just to add a bit more info: The history of P&O goes something like this: In 1757: James Thompson and Co formed. In 1863 it became Anderson, Thompson & Co. In 1869 it Became Anderson & Anderson & Co. A Liner service to Australia started with the steam vessel 'Orient' in 1866 and this eventually became known as the Orient Line of Packets, shortend to the Orient Line!

In 1877 the company merged with the Pacific Steam Navigation Company (P.S.N.Co) and became the Orient Steam Navigation Company. An association with the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company (P&O. S.N.Co - shortend to P&O) started at the turn of the 20th century when the two companies shared an Australian government mail contract. P&O aquired a controlling interest in Orient line in 1919 and formally merged in 1960 to become the P&O Orient line. The name orient Line was dropped altogether in 1966. P&O now operate as P&O Cruises and are owned by the Carnival corporation who also own Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Seabourn Cruises, Cunard Line, Ocean Village Cruises, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises, Ibercruises and P&O Australia. It is not uncommon to see insignia of any of the Carnival own companies being worn by staff on P&O Cruise ships!

Picturd below from the left are: A modern P&O officers cap badge. An Orient Line Officers cap badge. A modern P&O uniform button and an Orient Line uniform button.

Hope it is of interest.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P&O Cap Badge.jpg (12.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Orient Line Cap Badge.jpg (28.4 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg P&O Button.jpg (8.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Orient Line Button.jpg (4.7 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by sailorbear; 08-02-10 at 11:40 AM.
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  #8  
Old 08-02-10, 03:50 PM
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Thank you very much indeed!

D.
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  #9  
Old 18-02-10, 06:07 AM
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My great-grandfather served on the HMT (His Majesty's Transport) Malwa, a P&O vessel which was requisitioned for trooping in 1917. Does this mean that the badge is likely that of the Merchant Navy HM Transport - as shown by 'Paddy'?

Also, does anyone know if such crew members were then considered to be members of HM Transport Service or the shipping line by which they had been employed (P&O in this case)?

...and does anyone know where information can be found on uniforms and insignia of the mercantile marine/merchant navy and HM Transport Service in WW1?

Any further insights appreciated!
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  #10  
Old 23-05-15, 12:24 PM
joseph joseph is offline
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the guy sitting is definitely P&O the badge was changed about 1977 if memory serves.
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