62 Punjabis align

[pinfrin]

A / B correct
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/62nd_Punjabis
A.B also right ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INDIAN-ARM...item3f3a6c3764

[Wmr-RHB]

Maybe a collar?

[peter monahan]

I agree - probably a collar. Possibly post'47 but very nice indeed. Never seen one like it.

[Lampwick]

I had a set of these dragon and elephants some years ago. They are definitely collar badges but I thought that they were Carnatic Mysore.

[Khyber]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

I agree - probably a collar. Possibly post'47 but very nice indeed. Never seen one like it.

Post-47? with a crown?

[peter monahan]

I was basing my opinion on the quality, thinking it may have been done post '47 with the expansion of the IA. The crown continued to be worn officially until 1950 when India became a republic and much longer than that, at least unofficially, in some units, who truly cherished their traditions.

When a friend of mine visited the mess of an Indian Armoured Corps regiment, is old unit, in the 1970s, he was immediately asked to identify the caricatures of British officers, done in WWII, which still hung on the mess walls. Some units still carry their Indian Mutiny battle honours! So a collar dog with a crown on it from the '50s seems quite possible to me, but I may well be wrong.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Khyber

Post-47? with a crown?

This seems to be a quite common misunderstanding here on the forum. It is addressed several times (mainly in this sub-forum about Indian badges).

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_India:

George VI was made King of India (the head of state) and was represented by the Governor-General of India.

and similar from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakista...odern_Pakistan:

In 1947, George VI relinquished the title of Emperor of India and became King of Pakistan. He retained that title until his death on 6 February 1952, after which Queen Elizabeth II became Queen of Pakistan. She retained that title until Pakistan became an Islamic and Parliamentary republic in 1956

So far for the historical background.

[peter monahan]

Henk - Very good point! And since the 62nd Punjabis went to the Pakistani Army as 1st battalion the Punjab Reg't, this could have been made as late as 1956. And it is the largest unit of the Pakistani Army - once had over 60 battalions, now at 47, so LOTS of badges would have been made.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

Henk - Very good point! And since the 62nd Punjabis went to the Pakistani Army as 1st battalion the Punjab Reg't, this could have been made as late as 1956. And it is the largest unit of the Pakistani Army - once had over 60 battalions, now at 47, so LOTS of badges would have been made.

O yes, those regiments growed and growed. The information I have for the the 1922 1st Punjab Regiment (of which the 62 Punjabis formed the 1st Bn, as you mention) is that it started with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 10th (Training) Bn.

After expansions and reductions during the war the 1st Punjab Regiment that went to the Pakistan Army consisted of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 7th Bn (and the Regimental Centre).

In 1948 the 14th Bn was raised.

In 1956, on the complete reorganisation of the Infantry, these six battalions became the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 18th and 20th Bn of the new Punjab Regiment (all the gaps shown here were filled by battallions from the 14th, 15th and 16th Punjab Regiment). This regiment grew immensely since.

I have no idea if the collar badges above were used by the 1st Bn only or by the 1st Punjab Regiment as a whole (the Dragon was also used by the 66th Punjabis which became the 2nd Bn, the Elephant was also used by the 84th Punjabis which became the 10th Bn, so it could be that these collars were adopted by the whole 1st Punjab Regiment);

I doubt if these collars were still used post 1956 by either the 1st Bn The Punjab Regiment or by all of the ex-1st Punjab Regiment battalions. A rather large change away from the old can be noticed: new badges, more Islamic symbols and Arabic script for Urdu scrolls, etc. Would using the old symbols be acceptable in the mood of the time? (But you never know).