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  #16  
Old 18-01-15, 01:42 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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I've always asumed the springbok type was worn in the late sixties when 42 AOP Flight was part of the Army for a year or two before being transferred back to the SAAF as 42 Squadron. It is still a mystery to me why there are two patterns of Springbok pilot wing though - one with a protea wreath and 'Per Specimus' and one that's just the springbok head.

Anyone know what happened when the army pilots became part of the SAAF - did they continue wearing the army wings or did they swop them for the standard SAAF pattern?

I also wonder why when the Army briefly had pilots again in the 1960s they designed the springbok wing - why didn't they use the flaming grenade type again or simply use the standard SAAF wing?
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  #17  
Old 27-01-15, 07:27 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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I've (quite per chance) come accross some more information on rmy AOP pilots in a nice new book "Facta Nostra Vivent" by Andrew Embleton. It is a book about the SAAF's Central Flying School. On pp 216-7 the book mentions that from 1955 to 1962 Army pilots (all artillery officers) were trained at CFS.

It seems that when Cessna 185's arrived from 1962 to replace the Austers training was done by Comair, a commercial airline before 42 AOP Flt became a Sqn in its own right with it's own Training Flight formed in Dec 62/Jan 63. SAAF Instructors were seconded to this flight until the unit had built up its own team of instructors. In 1963 the Army instructors trained members from various corps of the Army (no longer solely from the artillery).

>> I wonder whether this may be when & why the wing was changed from the winged artillery grenade to the springbok?

In 1968 the unit was transfered to the SAAF as 42 Sqn.

The book mentions most of the officers joined the SAAF, did a Harvard conversion course and qualified for SAAF pilot wings.

>> I assume therefore that the only chaps who continued to wear the army wings would have been the few chaps who chose to remain in the Army rather than transfer to the SAAF.

To my great delight, I found that one Page 69 there is a photo of a group of Army pilots in jocular mood wearing wings . They appear to be wearing Owens C287 on army service dress shirts with berets. The beret is a very light colour which starts yet another mystery - what colour were the berets?

South African Artillery berets are navy blue but this was not always the case. The range of berets in corps colours was only introduced from the late 1960s onwards. In WW2 for example armoured and motorcycle troops wore black and everyone else (incl. engineers, artillery and air force) wore khaki. My guess is that the berets are khaki but I would love to hear confirmation (or otherwise).
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  #18  
Old 27-01-15, 07:31 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Photograph from Page 69 "Facta Nostra Vivent" (2014) by Embleton.
This particular group trained on the Impala and were (army) qualified flying instructors. All but one later become instructors in the SAAF at CFS.
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File Type: jpg SA Army Pilots 1960s.jpg (37.4 KB, 16 views)
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  #19  
Old 30-01-15, 06:03 PM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Hi

Some interesting questions afraid no answers.

As for berets they do appear to be light in colour, just a pity that this is not a colour picture, cannot understand why it was not?

I have "tweeked it a little" hope you don't mind.

Brian
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  #20  
Old 31-01-15, 04:59 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham View Post
Hi

Some interesting questions afraid no answers.

As for berets they do appear to be light in colour, just a pity that this is not a colour picture, cannot understand why it was not?

I have "tweeked it a little" hope you don't mind.

Brian
Sorry, missing the bus with this one a bit, you clever ous are confusing me...
What badge are these guys wearing on their berets? Is it an army badge? Also, what wing are they wearing, is it the one I've attached?
Cheers,
Alex
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File Type: jpg Pilot army recon 60's.jpg (22.3 KB, 13 views)
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  #21  
Old 03-02-15, 05:44 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham View Post
Hi

Some interesting questions afraid no answers.

As for berets they do appear to be light in colour, just a pity that this is not a colour picture, cannot understand why it was not?

I have "tweeked it a little" hope you don't mind.

Brian
You're right it's well within the 'kodachrome' era. Possibly to keep printing costs down? But that's given me another idea. I'll see if I can maybe track down the author via the publisher. Perhaps the original might be in colour...
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  #22  
Old 03-02-15, 05:47 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
...What badge are these guys wearing on their berets? Is it an army badge? Also, what wing are they wearing, is it the one I've attached?...
Alex
Not sure what they are wearing on the berets. I assume they would have worn their corps badges and most of them would have come from the gunners but the badge doesn't quite look like a field gun nor a grenade but that may also just be due to reflection or lighting.

Yes, to me it looks like the wing you've posted, thanks.
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  #23  
Old 20-09-16, 03:39 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Found this by accident on the interweb... SA Arty Captain 1960s wearing Owens C287 type AOP wing with Cessna 185 in background
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File Type: jpg sa arty pilot 1960s wearing Owen C287 type wings.jpg (54.3 KB, 25 views)
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  #24  
Old 21-09-16, 09:04 AM
The Good Dudes The Good Dudes is offline
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Great pic!!! Thanks for sharing.
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  #25  
Old 15-04-18, 07:34 AM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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I missed this thread, but, what a lovely wing, I was particularly interested by the mention of the two Transvaal Horse Artillery officers as well as the course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by natal01 View Post
Eddie T lives in an Old Age Home on the Natal South Coast. He has been retired since the 80s, having been an Air Traffic Controller at various SA airports for over 20 years. Prior to that he was a Captain in the Natal Field Artillery and had been part of a rather short-lived experiment to train Artillery Officers how to fly so that they could become effective air observers for the artillery. According to Eddie , who has a remarkably clear memory, the first training course was held at 42 Sqn. starting in 1952. Apart from Eddie, there were 3 ACF artillery officers ( one from 22 Field and 2 from the THA) and 1 PF who rose to the rank of Brigadier. At the end of the course they were awarded a special wing . As far as he knew , their course was the first and last.
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