odd RAF button

[GTB]

One for the RAF collectors/historians

While going through my RAF buttons I came across this rather oddly designed specimen (L/H in photo)

A close look at the head and feathers, when compared with a normal RAF button, show a totally different bird. In my opinion it is an albatross whereas the normal RAF button is an eagle.

Even the Crown differs, although this could be put down to manufacturer's die.

Size is also odd: it is 21.5mm, whereas the normal RAF button is 23mm.

The back is plain unlike the normal RAF button, which has a backmark (Smith & Wright).

Finally, it has a round-loop shank whereas the normal RAF button has the typical large triangular-shaped flat loop.

I am wondering whether this can be a very early RAF button introduced when the RNAS design was discontinued

All comments welcome

GTB

[Cribyn]

Hello GTB

A nice variation but I am thinking that it is just that, a maker's variation with artistic licence taken over the shape of the eagle (or perhaps the tool maker thought it was supposed to be an albatross!).

There has, it would seem, always been a debate as to whether the device was an eagle or an albatross, although I understand that officially it has always been an eagle.

I will be interested to read what other members have to say.

Regards
Roger

[GTB]

Roger

A look at the head of the 'albatross' shows a distinctly aquatic form (even looks a bit like a duck)!
Personally, I don't wish this thread to slip down into a debate concerning eagle vs albatross. I am quite content to accept the official RAF bird to be an eagle.
However, with deference to the naval wing, I can accept an albatross as associated to their insignia.

Coming back to my button, I rather think it is quite old. Metal looks brass rather than gilding metal.

GTB

[SAS1]

I don't think it's anything other than a manufacturer variant, although possibly something like Indian made. I have several Indian made RAF badges and all are pretty inferior quality. I don't think it's any older than ww2. I have dozens of different RAF buttons and only wartime ones start to lack quality.

As for the bird, I'm 99% sure even the earliest RNAS regs state an eagle!

[Mike_2817]

Could it possibly be a blazer button?

[davidwyke]

I always thought the bird depicted on RNAS/RAF buttons was officially an eagle. That said, if you could turn the clock back and ask someone in the RNAS what it was, more likely than not the answer would be "albatross".

As regards the button in question, it could be a blazer button as Mike suggests but I'm more inclined to think it's a locally made item - Middle East, India or wherever.

David

[GTB]

Without having provenance for the button I cannot rule out that it may be a locally made item.

However, re my notion that it could well be an early issue. I recall that Dragon166 has placed a superb RAF album for members enjoyment and research and I specifically refer to Picture 95, OR Eagles 1. These show early pattern Airman's Eagle Badges. The head of the bird on my button is reminiscent of the heads on those early pattern badges. Perhaps Dave has some background information to this pattern?

GTB

[royston]

RNAS Buttons depicted an Eagle, with rope around the edge of the button. Initially, when the RAF was formed, the button was the same design as the earlier RNAS button, but not necessarily gilt finish. Shortly afterwards, the rope edge was abandoned, too nautical.

When the Royal Naval Fleet Air Arm was reformed in 1937, the normal RN button with anchor was adopted.

John