Efficiency Stars

[Jelly Terror]

What have we here then? A few 'efficiency stars' between these IS-badged, TF men... 5 years per star, is it?

JT ISB 17a.jpg
JT ISB 17f.jpgJT ISB 17g.jpgJT ISB 17h.jpg

I believe the 'distance-judging star' was exactly the same as the 'efficiency star' in design. If a TF man had both, how might the difference between the two be distinguished if worn simultaneously; or were they not ever worn together?

With thanks.

[davidwyke]

Nice photo!

The Efficiency Star for the Volunteer Bn's was 5 years I think, can't remember if it was still 5 years for the Territorials or was it reduced to 4?

I think the Distance Judging Star was much the same pattern but wasn't it only regular army? If so, the confusion wouldn't arise.

Looks like one man wasn't prepared to serve overseas!

David

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Nice photo!

The Efficiency Star for the Volunteer Bn's was 5 years I think, can't remember if it was still 5 years for the Territorials or was it reduced to 4?

I think the Distance Judging Star was much the same pattern but wasn't it only regular army? If so, the confusion wouldn't arise.

Looks like one man wasn't prepared to serve overseas!

David

David,

Thanks for your reply.

Maybe his badge was lost, or (as I have read was the case in many instances) the man was not comfortable wearing the ISB. Or, as you say, he chose not to volunteer.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

David,

Thanks for your reply.

Maybe his badge was lost, or (as I have read was the case in many instances) the man was not comfortable wearing the ISB. Or, as you say, he did chose not to volunteer.

Why wouldn't he be comfortable about wearing the badge? I thought anyone who was prepared to go overseas if necessary and "do their bit" would have been proud of the fact

David

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Why wouldn't he be comfortable about wearing the badge? I thought anyone who was prepared to go overseas if necessary and "do their bit" would have been proud of the fact

David

Proud no doubt, but from what I can gather, some men (indeed there were entire units) who would not wear it. Some schools of thought entertained the notion that it put undue pressure on others to follow suit. How widespread this was, I am unable to say.

In April of 1910, (remember, the badge was introduced in January of 1910) the matter of TF and foreign service, was discussed in the House of Lords. Lord Lucas (appointed Under-Secretary of State of War 1908 [with a seat on the Army Council]) had concerns. He said:

'Then as to the position of the man himself who is asked to undertake this obligation [undertaking the liability to serve abroad in time of national emergency] I quite agree with the noble Lord [Lord Willoughby de Broke] that it is very important to prevent any sort of pressure being put on these men. The noble Lord suggested that you would avoid putting pressure upon them if you waited till the emergency arose and then asked them to volunteer. My opinion is that the pressure that would then be put upon a member of the TF, and the stigma which would attach to him if when a war was going on he refused to serve abroad would be much greater than under our present system...'

'... The the noble Lord instanced the badge [ISB] as one means of putting pressure on these men. The badge cuts both ways. In some instances it is quite possible that it may be considered that a man who does not wear a badge is a fit subject for opprobrium, but I know of one regiment in the Territorial Force the members of which are quite willing to come forward and volunteer, but they will not wear the badge. Therefore if the badge is an unpopular thing in itself, as in some cases it may prove to be, I do not think it is likely to be used as a weapon against the man who does not take this liability.'

So as we can see, the badge had a mixed reception and raised concerns. For some it was worn with pride and for others, it was not.

I don't suppose for one minute the un-badged chap in the photo falls into this category, but it is certainly a very interesting slant on the badge at the time of its inception.

As an aside, it was not compulsory for the ISB to be worn.

[davidwyke]

It is an interesting slant on it and something I hadn't really thought about before!

David

[Jelly Terror]

ISB 23a.jpgISB 23d.JPGISB ES.jpeg

[irish]

Not trying to hijack the thread but thought this photo might be of interest. Efficiency stars present as well as other sleeve badges. Appears to be a Light Infantry Cap badge. Cannot make out the belt.
Late 1800's one might assume. Volunteer Bn. Is he a Color Sgt?

Thanks Jack

[davidwyke]

Hi Jack

He certainly has the full set there!

As you say, a Volunteer Battalion Colour Sergeant, 1880's/1890's.

The star at the top is the Sgts Proficiency badge, possibly the only badge to be worn above the crown.

4 Efficiency stars = 20 years returned as efficient.

If I remember correctly, the lozenge shape badge represents being returned as efficient in the most recent return made by the unit.

Interesting that the photo was taken in Louth, which is in Lincolnshire but of course Lincolnshire Regt was not Light Infantry. Given his length of service, he would have had to have been a Rifle Volunteer originally and I wonder if he has retained his RV headdress?

David

[irish]

Hello David thanks for the thorough description. For some reason I thought Louth was in Ireland. Was there a protocol regarding badges not being worn above the crown?

Best
Jack

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by irish

Hello David thanks for the thorough description. For some reason I thought Louth was in Ireland. Was there a protocol regarding badges not being worn above the crown?

Best
Jack

Hi Jack

There is also a Louth in Ireland but I assumed the photo was taken in Lincolnshire as the Irish Regts didn't have Volunteer Battalions.

There was a company of the 1st VB, Lincolnshire Regt stationed at Louth at the time your photo was taken; it had started life as a Rifle Volunteer Corps in 1859.

Of course, I'm also assuming the photo was taken in the area where he lived / served but it is possible that he might have been at Annual Camp and that was in Ireland?

I don't know if there was any rule during the Victorian period regarding not having a badge ^higher" than the crown, just not the done thing. I think it's the only badge from that period which you will see above the QVC. In fact although the soldier in your photo is wearing it in the correct position, it was sometimes worn directly above the chevrons, below the flags.

David

[Jelly Terror]

Jack,

Super photo. Thanks so much for posting and adding to the thread.

------------------------------------

David,

Always a pleasure to read your posts. Never short of fascinating info. Thank you.

Regards to all,

JT

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Hi Jack

He certainly has the full set there!

As you say, a Volunteer Battalion Colour Sergeant, 1880's/1890's.

The star at the top is the Sgts Proficiency badge, possibly the only badge to be worn above the crown.

4 Efficiency stars = 20 years returned as efficient.

If I remember correctly, the lozenge shape badge represents being returned as efficient in the most recent return made by the unit.

Interesting that the photo was taken in Louth, which is in Lincolnshire but of course Lincolnshire Regt was not Light Infantry. Given his length of service, he would have had to have been a Rifle Volunteer originally and I wonder if he has retained his RV headdress?

David

Clarence James was located in the Alexandra Studio, 1 Ramsgate, Louth, Lincs.

[Jelly Terror]

A dazzling display of stars here on the right sleeve of this Cheshire (Railway) Battalion RE tunic [circa 1910]:





JT

[Peter Brydon]

My example of a Sergeants uniform of the 6th V.B. Kings Liverpool Regiment.

P.B.