British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Everything Else > Other Militaria

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-12-16, 12:37 PM
Jonnyround Jonnyround is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 4
Default Lee Metford 1889 MK1 Bayonet

IMG_9424.JPG

IMG_9418.JPG

IMG_9420.JPG

IMG_9415.JPG

IMG_9411.JPG

I hope you can help me

I have the above bayonet and I am interested in finding out about the marks on it.

It does not have a scabbard I am sad to say.

It seems in remarkably good condition not having any nicks or dings on it even where it attached to the rifle.

It would appear unused

I have attached some pictures for you to have a look at.
Cheers
John
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14-12-16, 03:24 PM
Bill A's Avatar
Bill A Bill A is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,529
Default

Hi John, welcome to the Forum. Your account is now active and open for posts.
__________________
Res ipsa loquitur
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14-12-16, 03:32 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

John,

It is the rare 3 rivet version as you say, but has certainly been issued and used. The damage to the grips and the patina of the metal support that.

Your photos are quite small but I will try.

The first photo is the Issue date. Looks like 8/ 80 which would be August 1880

The second is the Regiment to which it was issued. Looks Like 2 KOM. That would be the 2nd Bn of Kings Own-----? Not sure on that one.

Other marks indicate the serial number of the bayonet or rifle. This bayonet will have been isseud, re-issued and re-issued throughout its lifetime, many being re-issued into WW1 for Reserve Forces.

The crossed out marks I cannot read.

The last one on the blade is the War Department acceptance mark WD, and the Enfield Factory Inspectors mark.

hope that helps.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14-12-16, 05:20 PM
Peter Brydon's Avatar
Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chester
Posts: 10,357
Default

I think Simon is right about "2 KOM" ( being 2nd Battalion Kings Own ????) but there is no KOM abbreviation listed in "Marking of Arms 1912 ", so could it be a Commonwealth unit ?

P.B,
__________________
Interested in all aspects of militaria/military history but especially insignia and history of non regular units with a Liverpool connection

Members welcome in my private Facebook group “The Kings Liverpool Regiment ( 1685-1958 )”
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-12-16, 12:32 AM
Jonnyround Jonnyround is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
John,

It is the rare 3 rivet version as you say, but has certainly been issued and used. The damage to the grips and the patina of the metal support that.

Your photos are quite small but I will try.

The first photo is the Issue date. Looks like 8/ 80 which would be August 1880

The second is the Regiment to which it was issued. Looks Like 2 KOM. That would be the 2nd Bn of Kings Own-----? Not sure on that one.

Other marks indicate the serial number of the bayonet or rifle. This bayonet will have been isseud, re-issued and re-issued throughout its lifetime, many being re-issued into WW1 for Reserve Forces.

The crossed out marks I cannot read.

The last one on the blade is the War Department acceptance mark WD, and the Enfield Factory Inspectors mark.

hope that helps.

regards
Hi Simon
The date is 8/89
The cross marks have C on either side
what would the reissue marks look like because I have just seem a couple of very faint marks one of which looks like 4C The Number under the 2 Kom is 480
The blade has not been sharpened on the edges.
I hope this helps with any further info you might be able to give
Regards
John
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 15-12-16, 08:38 AM
johnG's Avatar
johnG johnG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southampton, U.K.
Posts: 1,116
Default

I have a very similar bayonet which bears the date marking for January 1900.
My bayonet is stamped with the initials CG, which at first I thought to stand for 'Coldstream Guards' until further research into the markings on the bayonet lead to the realisation the CG stood for 'Cape Government'

In view of the above may I suggest the KOM marking on the bayonet might possibly refer to a South African Kommando.

Edited to add: To the best of my knowledge the Boer Kommando's were named after places and I have some trouble trying to reconcile '2KOM' with that, also an official form of marking on a Kommando bayonet is not convincing, so my suggestion is simply thrown into the ring as a possibility.

I hope somebody can make a positive identification.

Regards,

John
__________________
Keep the flame lily burning

Last edited by johnG; 15-12-16 at 09:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15-12-16, 10:20 AM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

Would The King's Own Malta Regiment be a possible contender for the initials 'KOM'? Only problem is I don't know whether they were a two battalion regiment or not.

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15-12-16, 10:25 AM
johnG's Avatar
johnG johnG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southampton, U.K.
Posts: 1,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribyn View Post
Would The King's Own Malta Regiment be a possible contender for the initials 'KOM'? Only problem is I don't know whether they were a two battalion regiment or not.

Roger
Good suggestion Roger, but the Kings Own Malta Regiment was not formed until 1932. However, there might be something in this as I believe Militia Regiments existed in Malta in the 19th century, and the earliest reference I have found to a 'Kings Own' tag was 1903 but I do not think it was part of an official title.

John
__________________
Keep the flame lily burning

Last edited by johnG; 15-12-16 at 10:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15-12-16, 10:35 AM
Cribyn's Avatar
Cribyn Cribyn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posts: 1,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnG View Post
Good suggestion Robert, but the Kings Own Malta Regiment was not formed until 1932.

John
My mistake John, I used the incorrect title. I meant The King’s Own Malta Regiment of Militia which existed between 1902 to 1931 I believe, becoming The King's Own Malta Regiment in 1932.

Roger
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-12-16, 10:45 AM
johnG's Avatar
johnG johnG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southampton, U.K.
Posts: 1,116
Default

Roger, the more I think about this the more I think you could be on to something. From memory I do believe Malta sent men to South Africa during the Boer War, so now for some Googling to try to pin that down.

Malta would most certainly be a better alternative to my original suggestion of the bayonet having a Kommando connection - somehow I cannot visualise the farmers in a bayonet charge, although I am sure they would have been very efficient at it, or even a Lee Metford finding favour over a Mauser or a beloved Springfield.

Regards,

John
__________________
Keep the flame lily burning

Last edited by johnG; 15-12-16 at 11:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15-12-16, 03:31 PM
Roy's Avatar
Roy Roy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: A Shropshire lad in Arizona
Posts: 3,877
Default

Hi Gents,

In regards the possible Malta connection and looking through my references - the only mark I can see even close to KOM is K.O. MTA. which is for The King's Own Malta Regiment of Militia.

Further; the letter 'M' (denoting Militia) was I understand used in conjunction with and where a number was present (in this case '2').

So with all that in mind then it seams reasonable that '2 K O M' would fit the 2nd King's Own (Malta) Militia theory.

Now that's just commenting on the mark itself, so I will leave those more knowledgable to comment on whether such a unit existed at the appropriate time.

Cheerio,

Roy

P.s. I am on the lookout for a splendid example of the so-called volunteer/commercial version of this bayonet (i.e. no military markings), if anyone has one in their collection they want to part with?
__________________
Collecting:

Despatch Rider Insignia & Photographs.


Author/Dealer in the Fairbairn Sykes Fighting Knife
My website: www.fsknife.com

Last edited by Roy; 15-12-16 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 15-12-16, 04:51 PM
jean-paul Vermersch's Avatar
jean-paul Vermersch jean-paul Vermersch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: North of France
Posts: 264
Default

Hello everyone,
Even without a scabbard, it's a very nice bayonet. They are not found in the north of France or with only 2 rivets ....
A picture of the entire weapon would be welcome.
Jean Paul
A french collector...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 15-12-16, 05:58 PM
johnG's Avatar
johnG johnG is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southampton, U.K.
Posts: 1,116
Default

So there we have it Roger, I reckon Roy has nailed it, and Malta it is.

Regards,

John
__________________
Keep the flame lily burning
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17-12-16, 08:49 PM
jean-paul Vermersch's Avatar
jean-paul Vermersch jean-paul Vermersch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: North of France
Posts: 264
Default

Je n'ai que celle là....
I only have this one
Good evening
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6390.jpg (35.2 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-12-16, 09:46 PM
Peter Brydon's Avatar
Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chester
Posts: 10,357
Default

I also think these are well designed items, pictures of my examples attached.

PB
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3790.jpg (52.0 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3792.jpg (45.3 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3791.jpg (55.5 KB, 22 views)
__________________
Interested in all aspects of militaria/military history but especially insignia and history of non regular units with a Liverpool connection

Members welcome in my private Facebook group “The Kings Liverpool Regiment ( 1685-1958 )”
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.