Leicestershire PAO Yeomanry AA 1952-57

[GriffMJ]

From the pattern card:-

Production date: 1952
Materials badge, metal: white metal and gilding metal
FULL NAME: badge, standard pattern, Leicestershire Yeomanry (Prince Albert's Own)
Creator: JR Gaunt London

Card Front: badge, card, seal badge: the crest of the Prince Consort with a scroll above inscribed Prince Albert's Own Yeo and below this another scroll inscribed South Africa 1900-02; badge in white metal, slider in gilding metal.
Card: Inspectorate of Clothing Ministry of Supply Pattern No. 15031 Spec. No. UK/CIC/208B Cat. No. CB 2540 Standard (Working, deleted) Pattern; inscribed, Badges, Cap Leicestershire Yeomanry WM To guide for Spec UK/CIC/2124 in Anodised Aluminium Cat No CB 3183; approved by ORD 17 9-5-1952; authority given as ENC 36 to 54/Officers/4051 (ORD 17) IC/C/1188; signed CA Bird.
Seal: the shield of the Arms of the Board of Ordnance encircled Chief Inspector.

So it looks like it was thought about but never followed through?

I have attached the 1952 Wm cap badge....

[Mike H]

I think theres quiet a few that got to that stage Griff.Also a number that even went as far as trial patterns but no farther.

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Mike

So, there could be a pattern card for the "un-used" AA either waiting to be loaded up by the IWM or in a private collection... never say never

Maybe Chris [Hagwalther] could shed some more light on "the process"?

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Thanks Mike

So, there could be a pattern card for the "un-used" AA either waiting to be loaded up by the IWM or in a private collection... never say never

Maybe Chris [Hagwalther] could shed some more light on "the process"?

Hi Griff,

There are quite a few examples of badges like this in the book - nineteen I think. While some of these pattern cards most certainly were used for the A/A cap badge others were not.

Of the latter the Somaliland Scouts with Tudor Crown springs to mind.

Basically, if an existing pattern card was already in use then this old WM/GM card would be 'promoted' for A/A use with an inscription e.g from the WM/GM Durham Light Infantry pattern card:

Pattern also to guide for Anodised Aluminium Cat No. CB 3072

hand wriiten onto the card.

Griff, do you actually own this card or can you tell me where did you got this card from as I would like to update my notes on this item.

CB 3138 The Leicestershire and Derbyshire (Prince Albert’s Own) Yeomanry, RAC (TA) is covered in the List of Changes in C 4717 which was a change of intent only (see Appendix 1) although I have no further details of this badge going any further.

Regards

Chris

[GriffMJ]

Chris

"Nearly" all the Leics Yeo cap badge pattern cards are held at the IWM I am sure more are held there but have not been loaded up yet...... the cards that I have found vindicate my asserted theories about the post 1922 badges (most chuffed!)

This is what I have for the LDYPAO AA (1961):-

IWM Catalogue number: NS 2210
Production date: 1961
Materials badge: anodised aluminium
Alternative Names:
FULL NAME: badge, standard pattern, Leicestershire and Derbyshire (Prince Albert's Own) Yeomanry
SIMPLE NAME: badge, headdress: British
Creator: JR Gaunt London
Category: uniforms and insignia

Card reverse: Inscribed ISC Bingham 20/12/67 followed by initials (illegible) (3625 deleted).

Card front: Badge, pouch, card, seal.

Badge: A rose surmounted by a queen's crown; superimposed thereon the crest of the Prince Consort; below the rose a scroll inscribed The Leicestershire & Derbyshire Yeomanry.

Pouch: Cloth pouch to protect badge.

Card: Inspectorate of Stores and Clothing Pattern No. 18437 Spec. No. UK/CIC/2124D Cat. No. (CB 7936 deleted) 8455-99 -973-9507 Standard; inscribed, Badges (Organization inserted) Cap Leicestershire & Derbyshire Yeomanry (TA) Anodised Aluminium; approved by ORD 17B 17-1-1961; authority given as 54/RAC/231 NV/82/081; signed A Harrison 4.5.62.

Seal: The shield of the Arms of the Board of Ordnance

Card attached: THE LEICESTERSHIRE & DERBYSHIRE YEOMANRY

So.... in summary.... produced in 1961, signed off in 1962 and then issued in 1963 (MM: J.R.GAUNT LONDON). There will be another card for the 1966 issue (MM: J.R.GAUNT BHAM). Firmin also produced a cap badge, NCO Arm & buttons in AA...... so a pattern card might exist for them?

I have two pattern cards also for the buttons in AA, produced in 1957 right from the get go.... so no plated, Wm, gilt or brass buttons produced for the LDYPAO.... only AA.

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Chris

"Nearly" all the Leics Yeo cap badge pattern cards are held at the IWM I am sure more are held there but have not been loaded up yet...... the cards that I have found vindicate my asserted theories about the post 1922 badges (most chuffed!)

This is what I have the the LDYPAO AA (1961):-

IWM Catalogue number: NS 2210
Production date: 1961
Materials badge: anodised aluminium
Alternative Names:
FULL NAME: badge, standard pattern, Leicestershire and Derbyshire (Prince Albert's Own) Yeomanry
SIMPLE NAME: badge, headdress: British
Creator: JR Gaunt London
Category: uniforms and insignia

Card reverse: Inscribed ISC Bingham 20/12/67 followed by initials (illegible) (3625 deleted).

Card front: Badge, pouch, card, seal.

Badge: A rose surmounted by a queen's crown; superimposed thereon the crest of the Prince Consort; below the rose a scroll inscribed The Leicestershire & Derbyshire Yeomanry.

Pouch: Cloth pouch to protect badge.

Card: Inspectorate of Stores and Clothing Pattern No. 18437 Spec. No. UK/CIC/2124D Cat. No. (CB 7936 deleted) 8455-99 -973-9507 Standard; inscribed, Badges (Organization inserted) Cap Leicestershire & Derbyshire Yeomanry (TA) Anodised Aluminium; approved by ORD 17B 17-1-1961; authority given as 54/RAC/231 NV/82/081; signed A Harrison 4.5.62.

Seal: The shield of the Arms of the Board of Ordnance

Card attached: THE LEICESTERSHIRE & DERBYSHIRE YEOMANRY

So.... in summary.... produced in 1961, signed off in 1962 and then issued in 1963 (MM: J.R.GAUNT LONDON). There will be another card for the 1966 issue (MM: J.R.GAUNT BHAM). Firmin also produced a cap badge, NCO Arm & buttons in AA...... so a pattern card might exist for them?

I have two pattern cards also for the buttons in AA, produced in 1957 right from the get go.... so no plated, Wm, gilt or brass buttons produced for the LDYPAO.... only AA.

Hi Griff,

Pattern cards were not made at manufacturer level so no specific card for different makers.

Also, some Tudor Crown pattern cards were 'promoted' to St.Edwards Crown variants too. Therefore, at times where the same badge was authorised in both crown types only the Tudor Crown pattern exists with a hand written note re: ...acting as a guide for St. Edwards Crown...

See chapter on Military Documentation for more details on pattern cards/tags.

Regards

Chris

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Griff,

Pattern cards were not made at manufacturer level so no specific card for different makers.


Chris

Absolutly right, remember we are looking here at a museum description of a card and a transcription of what the card says. In this case the museum worker is merely stating/describing that the sample of the badge on the card happens to have a markers mark of "x'.

This does in no way infer that that card is only for that maker. Sometimes I have seen that the company contracted to make the first samples, which if approved may have been used for the standard cards rarely ever got a contract again. When tenders were issued by the WO for pattern so & so, manufacturers were able to consult the cards for reference to ensure they adhered to the pattern. You will see on many cards this booking in and out of the same card by competing manufacturers rather like a library ticket.

John

[GriffMJ]

All good stuff... thanks John

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Absolutly right, remember we are looking here at a museum description of a card and a transcription of what the card says. In this case the museum worker is merely stating/describing that the sample of the badge on the card happens to have a markers mark of "x'.

This does in no way infer that that card is only for that maker. Sometimes I have seen that the company contracted to make the first samples, which if approved may have been used for the standard cards rarely ever got a contract again. When tenders were issued by the WO for pattern so & so, manufacturers were able to consult the cards for reference to ensure they adhered to the pattern. You will see on many cards this booking in and out of the same card by competing manufacturers rather like a library ticket.

John

Hi John,

Quite right. If I remember (I should check I know but I don't have access to notes) the maker of the A/A cap badge for the pattern cards of the East Anglia Brigade never bulk manufactured them.

Regards

Chris