Royal Canadian Regt titles

[badjez]

I am not very knowledgeable about Canadian insignia so any help is appreciated.

My interest is in the Royal Cipher/ Cypher badges worn by the Norfolk Yeomanry (King's Own Royal Regt). I have seen adverts and references to the same GvR, EviiR, and GviR titles being worn by the Royal Canadian Regt and would like further information on these items.

Are they distinguishable from the Norfolk Yeomanry badges by way of metals used, size, method of fitting (lugs/ blades etc.) or by way of manufacturer.

Thanks, Stephen.

[Bill A]

Hi Stephen, A start would be accessing the Mazeas Canadian Militia Badges Pre-1914.
The comparison may be difficult. I am not sure if many Canadian collectors are also Norfolk Yeomanry collectors.
Perhaps if you posted some images and the details of the Norfolk Yeomanry badges, those with RCR badges can form a response?

[regimentalrogue]

Good afternoon Stephen,

My page here shows the Cyphers worn as shoulder strap badges by The Royal Canadian Regiment:

http://regimentalrogue.com/rcrbadges...and_titles.htm

As shoulder strap badges, the attachments would have been with lugs. There would not have been a GviR version worn by The RCR, as the cyphers were replaced by "RCR" titles in 1915.

[Ian B]

Good day Stephen,

Further to what Mike posted on his link, here are photos of shoulder titles for The RCR from my collection. I've put in a small ruled scale so you can measure them to compare with others.

1. OR shoulder title 1894 - 1902. 2. OR shoulder title 1902 - 1908. 3. OR shoulder title 1908 - 1911 (a title that is about half again as large as this one may be encountered, it is the title for the great coat). 4. OR shoulder title 1911 - 1915. 5. Offr/OR shoulder title from 1915 to present (top one is one of the first designs, bottom is later and has been worn up to the present).

Cheers,

Ian

[badjez]

Thank you all. It appears that an identical design was used, but that only slight differences in manufacture might be the clue to differentiating between RCR and Norfolk Yeomanry items.

The RCR titles for GvR badge appears to be more rounded in the material used, whereas the NY badge is flat.

It is worth noting that the Norfolk Yeomanry cap badge is the same cipher/cypher design only significantly larger than the shoulder title badges. Smaller badges, with sliders are frequently mistaken for NY badges, but so far as I am aware these were worn by the Military Provost Staff Corps, Corps of Army Schoolmasters, and Barrack Wardens (the latter may have been cipher only without a Crown though). Yet another use is of course for an ADC to the King/Queen. All very confusing.

I've added a couple of the British badges for comparison.

The EviiR badge is 55x41mm, with 3 lugs. This is probably a shoulder strap badge.

The GvR badge is bronze, measures 29x39mm and was made by JR Gaunt, London. It has two lugs. This is NOT an NY cap badge, nor worn by MPSC, Schoolmasters or Barrack Wardens as none of the latter three had officers of their own Corps.

The GviR badge is an NY OR cap badge. It measures55x41mm, and has a slider.

I don't have any EviiiR cypher badges to show as comparisons.

Stephen.

[Bill A]

Hi Stephen, Thanks for the information. Ian, are the dimensions for the RCR cyphers the same as the dimensions that Stephen has posted for the NY cyphers?

[Ian B]

Not sure Bill. Not familiar with NY insignia.

However, on a separate note, this is something I find rather perplexing on badge forums. Without something to compare it to, a picture of a certain badge, especially if it is not common and well known to all, has no context. By that I mean how can you tell the dimensions? That is why I try to include a small scale in any pictures I take of badges I submit for others' viewing. Now I know that this might make it easier for the unscrupulous to reproduce badges as they can now better determine badge dimensions. The danger of the hobby I guess. I will continue to use a scale in my pictures so as to give pertinent information to all the members. If others choose not to give context, that is their choice.

My pictures were to help Stephen to determine if the shoulder badges for The RCR were the same size as the ones for the NY.

Ian

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by badjez

Thank you all. It appears that an identical design was used, but that only slight differences in manufacture might be the clue to differentiating between RCR and Norfolk Yeomanry items.

The RCR titles for GvR badge appears to be more rounded in the material used, whereas the NY badge is flat.

It is worth noting that the Norfolk Yeomanry cap badge is the same cipher/cypher design only significantly larger than the shoulder title badges. Smaller badges, with sliders are frequently mistaken for NY badges, but so far as I am aware these were worn by the Military Provost Staff Corps, Corps of Army Schoolmasters, and Barrack Wardens (the latter may have been cipher only without a Crown though). Yet another use is of course for an ADC to the King/Queen. All very confusing.

I've added a couple of the British badges for comparison.

The EviiR badge is 55x41mm, with 3 lugs. This is probably a shoulder strap badge.

The GvR badge is bronze, measures 29x39mm and was made by JR Gaunt, London. It has two lugs. This is NOT an NY cap badge, nor worn by MPSC, Schoolmasters or Barrack Wardens as none of the latter three had officers of their own Corps.

The GviR badge is an NY OR cap badge. It measures55x41mm, and has a slider.

I don't have any EviiiR cypher badges to show as comparisons.

Stephen.

Stephen,

Royal Engineer Services undress hat/badge - EVIIR cipher:



http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...0&postcount=22

Regards,

JT

[leigh kitchen]

Because I have the images, to hand, what I believe is a King GV Inspector of Army Schools cap that I have & a King GV Recruiter's badge shown on a postcard.