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  #16  
Old 15-09-13, 03:51 PM
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johanwiegman johanwiegman is offline
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Default Never too late!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cw2311 View Post
Johan,

You have some impressive stuff that's always nice to see. You almost make me want to change my collecting field!

Cheers
Hi Coogan,

Well, it is never too late to add SAS to your collecting scope. A very interesting field!

Cheers,

Johan
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  #17  
Old 15-09-13, 04:01 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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Gentlemen,
The longer you leave it, the more expensive it will become!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanwiegman View Post
Hi Coogan,

Well, it is never too late to add SAS to your collecting scope. A very interesting field!

Cheers,

Johan
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  #18  
Old 15-09-13, 06:32 PM
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Default battledress 21 SAS

Friends,

Some pics of my favourite 21 SAS battledress: 1949 pattern blouse, dated 1952, worn by a Lieutenant.

Standard configuration of (cut-off) shoulder titles, Mars & Minerva badge and 1944 pattern parachute wings.

Please notice the black-and-green Rifles lanyard. This is the thick lanyard worn by
21 SAS officers at the time. The OR lanyard was not as thick.

Also, note the black Rifles buttons (on the visible buttons) and the Korea medal ribbons.

Cheers,

Johan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN2318a.jpg (99.8 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2326a.jpg (95.1 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2319.jpg (110.3 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2331a.jpg (60.7 KB, 141 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2321a.jpg (61.1 KB, 76 views)

Last edited by johanwiegman; 23-09-13 at 09:37 PM.
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  #19  
Old 16-09-13, 10:16 PM
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Default SAS titles sealed

Friends,

From an old post by Gollmarc, just to keep the reference material together: information
about the sealing of shoulder titles.

Cheers,

Johan

Post War period;

The words SPECIAL AIR SERVICE embroidered in Light blue thread into a maroon felt background. Catalogue number CB 2091, pattern number 16209, sealed 8th April 1954, vocabulary 12th July 1954, introduction into service published by List of Changes C 6140 August 1954. Replaced all previous titles. NATO Stock number CB 8455-99-135-9878.

And.

The words SPECIAL AIR SERVICE over (ARTISTS) embroidered in Light blue thread into a maroon felt background. Catalogue number CB 1516, pattern number 15649, sealed 26th March 1953, vocabulary 13th October 1953, introduction into service published by List of Changes C 5635 November 1953.

Marc

Last edited by johanwiegman; 17-09-13 at 05:05 AM.
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  #20  
Old 23-09-13, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_2817 View Post
This is a fairly universal anser really

Battle Dress (No5 Dress as was) had two purposes, and was replaced in differant ways.

As a field Uniform it started to be replaced as a Temperate Climite Uniform (BAOR & UK) by Combat Dress 1960 Pattern (No8 Dress) or in the Para's & SF by the OG Trousers (Part of No9 Dress) with Para Smock (which as an over smock was classed as Protective Clothing i.e. No12 Dress) of differing pattons! From as the date surgests 1960ish

As a Walking Out & Dress Uniform it was replaced by No2 Uniform from 1962 onwards.

Now I know some TA units lingered on into the late 1960's but not much Battle Dress was issued after 1970
hi Guys
one of the least know uniforms arfter the 49 pattern uniform is the combat sateen 1952 pattern a mix of the us style combat uniform and the 49 patern uniform issued from 1953 ( just court the tail end of the korian war ) The combat unifom consited of a cap with a peak ( for runner to the crap hat ) trousers and jacket you still wore putties or gaters with the set it was issued to front line units 1st see items no's 53386 ( cap ) 56327 trousers on my web site http://www.brittonatwar.co.uk the cold weather parker that was issued during this period was a part of this combat set .steve
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  #21  
Old 23-09-13, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanwiegman View Post
Friends,

See example of insignia configuration of a 21 battledress.

This is the 4th configuration, with a cut-down shoulder title, in this case with little pale blue dots remaining of the brackets of "Artists". Cutting off the "(Artists)" bit of the shoulder title was a bit of a delicate job.

Note the M&M badge is worn facing backwards, a consequence of turning the beret badge into an arm badge and wearing it on the right sleeve...

I would be interested to know when the M&M badge was phased out. Together with battledress or earlier, possibly to align with the other SAS Regiments?

Cheers,

Johan
Hi Johan,

Is the wing in the photograph of the cut down shoulder title the same pattern as the wing usually described as late WW2 pattern, or are there subtle differences?

Thanks,
Jack
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  #22  
Old 23-09-13, 06:11 PM
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Default Wings

Hi Jack,

The wing on my BD is the 1944 pattern wing. It is a bit deformed due to wear. This pattern was worn for some time after WW2, first by 21 SAS and then in Malaya, by British, New Zealand and Rhodesian squadrons. I guess the 1944 wings were used until stocks ran out.

Large numbers were produced in WW2 for the SAS Brigade, but I believe the pattern was also manufactured in smaller numbers after WW2. Of course, the post war SAS was always much smaller than the WW2 SAS Brigade.

I believe the padding material during WW2 was a length of rope (austerity measure) and some thicker felt padding was used after WW2.

Most of the 1944 pattern wings I have seen were padded with rope, which makes sense. I have a 1944 wing with press studs also, probably from the Malayan period.

Cheers,

Johan

Last edited by johanwiegman; 24-09-13 at 06:01 PM.
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  #23  
Old 23-09-13, 07:25 PM
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Default 1944 vs 1950

Friends,

See the original 1944 pattern wings and a post war copy dating from the early fifties.

Notice the differences!

The 1944 pattern has thin, often double rigging lines and thin double top wing lines. The 50-ies copy has much thicker single rigging lines and top wing lines.

Also, the shape of the wing is slightly different, as are the colours. The 50-ies copy is a bit more upswept and has a very bright shade of dark blue, while the 1944 colours are a bit more subdued, so to say. The embroidery on the 1950 version is also thicker as is the stitching between the feathers.

The 50-ies wing is much rarer than the 1944 pattern, but not uncommon. It has very distinctive features, so keep your eyes open for one!

Cheers,

Johan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1944 pattern wing.jpg (33.7 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg 50-ies wings front.jpg (50.1 KB, 118 views)

Last edited by johanwiegman; 23-09-13 at 07:57 PM.
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  #24  
Old 23-09-13, 08:50 PM
Jack8 Jack8 is offline
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Thanks for taking the time to explain the differences Johan, it is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Jack
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  #25  
Old 25-09-13, 05:07 AM
HamandJam HamandJam is offline
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To add to the confusion there exists a 2-3-1946 dated sealed pattern of the 1944 wing see PT SF insigina book. This is supposed to be a tardily army bureaucrat approval. Why is not sure as unofficially SAS brigade was disbanded oct 1945 ( officially June 30, 1946 by army order of August 1946) and 21st SAS only raised in 1947.

Under sas collectors there is common agreement these were worn and produced as from 1944. They were also worn by Belgian and French sas in ww2.

Rgds,

JB



Quote:
Originally Posted by johanwiegman View Post
Friends,l

See the original 1944 pattern wings and a post war copy dating from the early fifties.

Notice the differences!

The 1944 pattern has thin, often double rigging lines and thin double top wing lines. The 50-ies copy has much thicker single rigging lines and top wing lines.

Also, the shape of the wing is slightly different, as are the colours. The 50-ies copy is a bit more upswept and has a very bright shade of dark blue, while the 1944 colours are a bit more subdued, so to say. The embroidery on the 1950 version is also thicker as is the stitching between the feathers.

The 50-ies wing is much rarer than the 1944 pattern, but not uncommon. It has very distinctive features, so keep your eyes open for one!

Cheers,

Johan

Last edited by HamandJam; 25-09-13 at 05:12 AM.
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  #26  
Old 25-09-13, 07:46 AM
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Here is another (but poor quality photocopy) of the same sealed pattern card but the wings are at a different angle on the card. Remember that even though the SAS were "disbanded" those officers and soldiers who had already earned their wings during WW2 could/did continue to wear them (in perpetuity?) and therefore a sealed pattern was required.

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (62.9 KB, 76 views)
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  #27  
Old 25-09-13, 07:42 PM
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Default Sealed pattern '46

Friends,

See a 1946 sealed pattern original. Belongs to a collector friend.

You can see the rigging lines are double wire. The wing is identical to 1944 pattern.

I think it was posted before.

Cheers,

Johan
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1946 sealed patttern front #1.jpg (24.2 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg 1946 sealed pattern wing #2.jpg (28.1 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg 1946 sealed pattern wing #3.jpg (24.1 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg 1946 sealed pattern wing.jpg (24.7 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg 1946 sealed pattern card rear.jpg (21.0 KB, 47 views)

Last edited by johanwiegman; 28-09-13 at 10:21 PM.
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  #28  
Old 25-09-13, 11:58 PM
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Excellent set Johan!! Very nice!! I never get bored seeing this stuff.

Cheers
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  #29  
Old 26-09-13, 07:21 AM
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HI Johan ,

REF: post 18 your SAS B.D when you say ` cut off` titles do you mean the word ARTISTS was removed please ??

many thanks . ohhh and fantastic thread here many thanks for taking the time to share
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  #30  
Old 26-09-13, 10:20 AM
HamandJam HamandJam is offline
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Here is another sealed pattern dated 1944, which seems different in design but some sas collectors questioned its authenticity. It mentions the same pattern number 13123. CB 0152 has been crossed out and replaced with other number and hand written correction qualification.

Cheers,
JB


Quote:
Originally Posted by johanwiegman View Post
Friends,

See sealed pattern original. Belongs to a collector friend.

You can see the rigging lines are double wire. The wing is identical to 1944 pattern.

I think it was posted before.

Cheers,

Johan
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File Type: jpg image.jpg (95.6 KB, 67 views)

Last edited by HamandJam; 26-09-13 at 02:27 PM.
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