8th Army Unusual WW2 badge ..

[arrestingu]

just picked this large 2.5 " by 2" , what appears to be Italian Made enamel badge for 8th Army ,
Never seen one !! any ideas if this could have been worn or is just a souverner ...
thanks
ateve

[loupie1961]

Originally Posted by arrestingu

just picked this large 2.5 " by 2" , what appears to be Italian Made enamel badge for 8th Army ,
Never seen one !! any ideas if this could have been worn or is just a souverner ...
thanks
ateve

In any case, Steve, is not 8th Army, is the Jerboa of the 7th Armoured Division... I'd rather say a souvenir, is cloisonné, I have never seen any British badges in cloisonné enamel...

[BWEF]

Could have been made in Sicily or possibly Naples?

The 7th Armoured was one of the formations that returned to the UK in November 1943 to fight in NW Europe.

All sorts of souvenir items were sold to the troops in Naples, medals, bracelets, ash trays etc, so it is possible that it was made in Naples after it fell at the start of October 1943.

[Filthy Fifth]

7th Armoured came back to the UK early in 1944 not '43 - and were they de-chuffed! All the best barracks and training areas were already occupied by units that hadn't seen action since 1940 or not at all. What the 7th were given was manky and in the middle of nowhere (i.e. Thetford area). And the leave allocation was miserly. There was a feeling that it was someone else's turn to be up the sharp end.

I agree the badge is probably a souvenir and probably made and bought in Naples. The 7th didn't serve in Sicily

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Filthy Fifth

7th Armoured came back to the UK early in 1944 not '43 - and were they de-chuffed! All the best barracks and training areas were already occupied by units that hadn't seen action since 1940 or not at all. What the 7th were given was manky and in the middle of nowhere (i.e. Thetford area). And the leave allocation was miserly. There was a feeling that it was someone else's turn to be up the sharp end.

I agree the badge is probably a souvenir and probably made and bought in Naples. The 7th didn't serve in Sicily

They weren't in the Italian campaign at all, except for detached units. 8th Armd took part in the Normandy landings and the fight through Europe to Germany.

It's probably a post war association pin.

[loupie1961]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

They weren't in the Italian campaign at all, except for detached units. 8th Armd took part in the Normandy landings and the fight through Europe to Germany.

It's probably a post war association pin.

I guess 7th Armoured?

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by loupie1961

I guess 7th Armoured?

The Red Jerboa is certainly the sign of the 7th Armd Div so you're probably correct there.

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

They weren't in the Italian campaign at all, except for detached units. 8th Armd took part in the Normandy landings and the fight through Europe to Germany.

It's probably a post war association pin.

That's like saying that the Americans didn't fight at Dieppe.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by BWEF

That's like saying that the Americans didn't fight at Dieppe.

Not at all. Men from the 1st US Ranger Battalion fought in Dieppe, dispersed amongst other units but still wearing their own insignia. There is no doubt about that but of course there were many more Americans there as volunteers in the Canadian Army but not wearing any official US distinction. The fact remains however that there was an official American presence on the Dieppe Raid.

I will make a correction here. Having checked my facts some elements of the 7th Armd (quite a few in fact) did participate in the Salerno landings (but not in Op Husky) and were in theatre between September and November 1943 before returning to the UK to train for the invasion of Normandy.

I should have checked that before stating that 7th Armd didn't take part in the Italian campaign and I apologise to anyone who took my incorrect information as gen. Two months doesn't sound very long but it's a long time when men are dying every day.

[BWEF]

Fair enough.

Remember that Naples fell on the 1st of October 1943, and there was a thriving little industry making stuff for the soldiers to take home/send home.

There are some nice little unofficial medals, most of which say either 5th Army, the original ones, or 8th Army.

Interestingly, the Neapolitans later started selling medals for the landings in Sicily in July 1943, complete with the standard "Bay of Naples" back.

Anything to feed their kids!

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Fair enough.

Remember that Naples fell on the 1st of October 1943, and there was a thriving little industry making stuff for the soldiers to take home/send home.

There are some nice little unofficial medals, most of which say either 5th Army, the original ones, or 8th Army.

Interestingly, the Neapolitans later started selling medals for the landings in Sicily in July 1943, complete with the standard "Bay of Naples" back.

Anything to feed their kids!

I'm not sure how much you know about the "industriousness" of certain individuals in Naples, both Italian and allied but aside from the thriving little industry making stuff for the soldiers to take home/send home it was a hotbed of crime which drew off large amounts of essentials originally destined for the front. Naples was neither unique in this or the worst but it was one of the worst and if you read into it you'd find that not all our servicemen were the noble, medal deserving heroes we previously thought them to be. BTW the Americans were by far the worst for this but then again there were more of them and they had a lot more motorised transport available than the British/Empire/Free armies - although considerably less by the time the black marketeers and profiteers had been through the place.

EDIT: The worst was arguably the allied front in France, Belgium, Holland and Germany. Interestingly, the USA's much lauded Red Ball Express was probably the worst culprit of all time. And again that's more than likely due to the concentration of numbers, vehicles and supplies. Much of which were lost to "enemy action" before it could get to the troops. This blatant criminality led to extreme shortages of essentials and was responsible for much discomfort in the front line and potentially the loss of thousands of men. If these losses hadn't occurred it's possible the allied armies could have fed and cared for axis prisoners better which would have saved quite a few more thousand lives.

[BWEF]

Just found your follow up.

I take it you have read Sean Longden's book "To the Victor the Spoils" about what was really going on behind the lines etc in NW Europe from Normandy to VE Day.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/To-Victor-Sp.../dp/1845295188

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by BWEF

Just found your follow up.

I take it you have read Sean Longden's book "To the Victor the Spoils" about what was really going on behind the lines etc in NW Europe from Normandy to VE Day.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/To-Victor-Sp.../dp/1845295188

No, I picked my info up from a variety of other books, not just one volume. I have to thank you very much for the link however because that book falls right into my sphere of interest and I've ordered the paperback version immediately. Couldn't knock it back at only 74p (the flippin postage is £2.80) and I'd have been happy to pay the full £8.99 (or more) to make sure I got hold of it. I've been looking for interesting books to fill my time. I'm mostly reading memoirs at the moment and very much enjoying them. Got 6 good ones from the library the other day, as well as having just finished the most fantastic series of 4 books: personal memoirs from yeomanry units and 3 RTR. All of whom served with 8th Armd Bde in WW2. They were never meant to be a series but just naturally fell into that category and it was spotted by a number of people on Amazon - so I bought the lot - and well worth every penny they were. My instinct tells me (along with the excellent reviews) that "To the Victor the Spoils" is going to keep me engrossed for a few days.

Thanks again.

[Mike Jackson]

Less well known but very much worth reading is Tail of an Army by Col JK Stanford RAOC published by Phoenix House in 1966. He covers skullduggery in the rear areas of the BEF (1939-40), the Middle East (1941-43) and in 21 Army Group (1944-45). A sample is attached. Mike
Tail of an Army.01.jpg

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Less well known but very much worth reading is Tail of an Army by Col JK Stanford RAOC published by Phoenix House in 1966. He covers skullduggery in the rear areas of the BEF (1939-40), the Middle East (1941-43) and in 21 Army Group (1944-45). A sample is attached. Mike
Attachment 106668

I see it can still be purchased second hand. Might just buy a copy.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tail-Army-St.../dp/B001AW0B4M