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  #16  
Old 23-04-18, 09:13 PM
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Fair to "rock bottom" prices?
The latter sounds particularly inviting!
Sorry, You’ve missed the last one I sold. Genuine, for £30. I had a fortunate ‘find’ and it didn’t hurt me to pay the luck forward.
Sean
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  #17  
Old 24-04-18, 06:42 AM
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£30 would certainly be very cheap these days!

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Sorry, You’ve missed the last one I sold. Genuine, for £30. I had a fortunate ‘find’ and it didn’t hurt me to pay the luck forward.
Sean
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  #18  
Old 24-04-18, 09:11 AM
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A minor point in the context of this thread, but it’s important to differentiate between the Guards Machine Gun Battalion formed in 1916, and the later Guards Machine Gun Regiment formed by merging the GMGB with Household Cavalry units, whose subsequent badge was an entirely different design altogether. The GMGR mounted guard at Buckingham Palace for the first and last time just before disbandment in 1922.
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  #19  
Old 24-04-18, 03:36 PM
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That had certainly occurred to me, hence my reply in post ten, officers actually wore silver and enamel badges, as mentioned, but, to the best of knowledge, some rank and file Household Cavalry wore the Guards MG Battalion cap badge.

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A minor point in the context of this thread, but it’s important to differentiate between the Guards Machine Gun Battalion formed in 1916, and the later Guards Machine Gun Regiment formed by merging the GMGB with Household Cavalry units, whose subsequent badge was an entirely different design altogether. The GMGR mounted guard at Buckingham Palace for the first and last time just before disbandment in 1922.

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 24-04-18 at 04:07 PM.
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  #20  
Old 25-04-18, 08:24 AM
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That had certainly occurred to me, hence my reply in post ten, officers actually wore silver and enamel badges, as mentioned, but, to the best of knowledge, some rank and file Household Cavalry wore the Guards MG Battalion cap badge.
I understand that the GMGB was formed from the established MMG ‘sections’ of the Foot Guard battalions of the Guards Division. As cavalry machine gunners trained and operated with the Hotchkiss gun, it seems unlikely that they generally served in the Vickers equipped companies of the GMGB, which from the outset and throughout the war supported the Guards Division, an infantry formation.

NB. The guard mount I mentioned was in 1919 and disbandment in 1920, not 1922 as I first thought.
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  #21  
Old 04-05-18, 07:25 AM
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As a collector of Household Cavalry, I have certainly come across individuals, originally, members of all three regiments, in both WO400 and in the case of those who served well into the 1920's (who are not in WO400, their original papers were retained by their regiments and are available at Combermere) before being discharged, who were serving in the MG Guards before February 1918.

Notwithstanding, it is all academic, given that the Guards MG Regiment cap badge was only approved in November 1918, moreover, I would be very sceptical if any had actually been issued before the armistice anyway.

Prior to that, all, including the three Household Cavalry units, machine gunners since February that year, certainly did wear the MG Guards star cap badge.

The Guards MG Regiment certainly did take part in the Victory parade in 1919 and were wearing their distinctive badges at the time.


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Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
I understand that the GMGB was formed from the established MMG ‘sections’ of the Foot Guard battalions of the Guards Division. As cavalry machine gunners trained and operated with the Hotchkiss gun, it seems unlikely that they generally served in the Vickers equipped companies of the GMGB, which from the outset and throughout the war supported the Guards Division, an infantry formation.

NB. The guard mount I mentioned was in 1919 and disbandment in 1920, not 1922 as I first thought.

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 04-05-18 at 06:50 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-05-18, 04:40 PM
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As a collector of Household Cavalry, I have certainly come across individuals, originally, members of all three regiments, in both WO400 and in the case of those who served well into the 1920's (who are not in WO400, their original papers were retained by their regiments and are available at Combermere) before being discharged, who were serving in the MG Guards before February 1918.

Notwithstanding, it is all academic, given that the Guards MG Regiment cap badge was only approved in November 1918, moreover, I would be very sceptical if any had actually been issued before the armistice anyway.

Prior to that, all, including the three Household Cavalry units, machine gunners since February that year, certainly did wear the MG Guards star cap badge.

The Guards MG Regiment certainly did take part in the Victory parade in 1919 and were wearing their distinctive badges at the time.
That’s interesting Frank. I have some photos somewhere of various GMGB badged men and one or two wearing the badge of the GMGR if I recall correctly. If I can find them I’ll post them in this thread.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 09-05-18 at 05:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-18, 04:52 PM
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Posted on a Household Bn thread a couple of years ago, HB cap badge and shoulder titles, Coldstream Guard buttons (photographer based at Kibworth).
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  #24  
Old 09-05-18, 05:19 PM
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That is a good photograph, do you know who the soldier was?

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Posted on a Household Bn thread a couple of years ago, HB cap badge and shoulder titles, Coldstream Guard buttons (photographer based at Kibworth).
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  #25  
Old 09-05-18, 05:31 PM
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That is a good photograph, do you know who the soldier was?
Unfortunately not.
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  #26  
Old 09-05-18, 06:10 PM
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Some soldiers who had served in the Household Battalion certainly did go on to the Guards MG Regiment, in particular, those NCO's who had been attached to the Household Battalion from their original regiments, still a lovely photograph.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-18, 06:58 PM
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If the photographs are dated and you know the identities of the men in them they can be very useful indeed.
I could not remember the dates, so I've just looked in the MHS special issue MGC from 2015 and two other Guards Division histories and they all give a date of 6th November 1918 for the GMGR badges. which would, I suppose, go some way to explaining why the badges are so scarce when compared with the common MG Guards stars.
The date of the 23rd of February 1918 is given for the 4th Battalion MG Guards with the result that the Household Cavalry became machine gunners.
The date of the 10th of May 1918 is given for the royal warrant creating the Guards MG Regiment.
Chappell in his history states that prior to the approval of the GMGR badges, all wore the MG Guards star, which in itself would make sense and I do remember as a boy, seeing an attributed cap, complete with star at the HCR museum, then at Combermere and having to ask what exactly it was.
If a soldier was "attached" to a unit, as were a number of serving NCO's from the Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards, to the Household Battalion, in 1916, then I would assume they simply wore their original cap badges and shoulder titles.
However, in the case of the Guards MG Regiment, soldiers from the three Household Cavalry regiments were not shown as "Attached" they are shown as "Transferred" and there is a difference in that it was the entire regiment, so I would suggest that, on the balance of probability, the star cap badge was worn by all until the GMGR badges were issued.

Either way, it does not alter the fact that the GMGR badges are very scarce indeed and they always tend to be in very good condition, in particular, when compared with some MG Guards stars, upon which you often see wear to the high points.



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That’s interesting Frank. I have some photos somewhere of various GMGB badged men and one or two wearing the badge of the GMGR if I recall correctly. If I can find them I’ll post them in this thread.

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 09-05-18 at 07:23 PM.
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