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  #1  
Old 07-01-18, 07:21 PM
sturgis sturgis is offline
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Default Unknown AAA unit formation badge.

Hi All
I have 2 metal plates off a vehicle which I need to identify.

One is a standard red over blue RA TRF with the number 164,

the other is an all blue background with a RED, 6 spoke wheel with one of the diagonal spokes extending beyond the wheel forming an arrow.

Any ideas ?
Richard
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  #2  
Old 07-01-18, 07:50 PM
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Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
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Although the unit serial 164 on RA plate was in use in WW2 (an unidentified AA Regt RA in an AA Gp in Second Army) the formation sign - 5 Army Group (AA) Royal Artillery (5 AGRA) -is post-War. Those, like myself, interested in the restoration and use of WW2 and other British military vehicles would very much appreciate an image of the actual plates. Mike
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  #3  
Old 08-01-18, 04:28 AM
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fairlie63 fairlie63 is offline
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164 was a spare number in the AGRA(AA) sequence for Corps troops from 1959 onwards.
Keith
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  #4  
Old 08-01-18, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairlie63 View Post
164 was a spare number in the AGRA(AA) sequence for Corps troops from 1959 onwards.
Keith
Thanks. One more number for the records! Mike
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  #5  
Old 08-01-18, 07:09 PM
sturgis sturgis is offline
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Picture attached.
I have found online that 5th AGRA was formed in 1943 and was part of XXX Corps ??.
Richard
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File Type: jpg 26771700_10155587294914079_938955318_o.jpg (48.8 KB, 64 views)
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  #6  
Old 08-01-18, 07:32 PM
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This is the formation badge for 5th Army Group RA (Anti Aircraft) 1950-1962, BAOR, not the WW 2 AGRA.

Marc
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File Type: jpg 5 AA Bde silk.jpg (94.2 KB, 9 views)
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Last edited by 54Bty; 21-01-18 at 08:31 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-01-18, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sturgis View Post
Picture attached.
I have found online that 5th AGRA was formed in 1943 and was part of XXX Corps ??.
Richard
Thanks. Is that plate about 6 x 6 inches square? Mike
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  #8  
Old 09-01-18, 10:17 PM
sturgis sturgis is offline
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Bigger...8 or 9 inches square. Came off a 1939 AEC Matador. Under the plate the original timber body was unpainted therefore the plate we thought was original to the bodywork. The '164' plate is identical in size and condition as well.
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  #9  
Old 09-01-18, 10:41 PM
sturgis sturgis is offline
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Any idea what unit this badge is for ? Its the only pic I can get !!
Looks like these are more modern made but were on top of the older plates on the vehicle.
Attached...
Richard
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  #10  
Old 10-01-18, 05:04 AM
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Default 95 AGRA

Late 1940s vintage - 95 AGRA(AA)(TA). Based in Newport or thereabouts. I have a note that the sign was obsolete in Oct 48. Mike
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  #11  
Old 21-01-18, 08:07 PM
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Here is the '164' number found on the Matador tailgate. Also the back of the two together. Also the tailgate showing where they were attached. (Note also the where the smaller troop/vehicle number plate was attached above these plates (same both sides)).
I am still not convinced these are not WW2. There is no evidence to the contrary that the badge was not used during WW2. As the IWM state is only probable that the badge was adopted when the 5th AGRA was reformed post war, but thats not a definite. Some AGRA's did have their own badges. If the AGRA number 164 was not allocated post war, what was this 164, we have, allocated to ??


Both plates were fixed with horizontal screw positions meaning the arrow was pointing North East.
Richard
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File Type: jpg 20180121_150833_resized.jpg (79.1 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 20180121_151029_resized.jpg (46.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 20180121_151205_resized.jpg (51.3 KB, 16 views)
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  #12  
Old 21-01-18, 08:38 PM
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To muddy the waters further, the WW2 Royal Artillery Commemoration book does not record a sign for 5 AGRA. Of course that does not mean they did not have one.

Marc
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  #13  
Old 22-01-18, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54Bty View Post
To muddy the waters further, the WW2 Royal Artillery Commemoration book does not record a sign for 5 AGRA. Of course that does not mean they did not have one.

Marc
They might, like 9 AGRA, have adopted an unapproved sign. Mike
9 AGRA History Cover.JPG9 AGRA History Cover.01.jpg
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  #14  
Old 22-01-18, 05:48 AM
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I don't know exactly which units constituted 5 AGRA but on 30 November 1943 while serving in Italy the units allotted to 5, 6 and 10 AGRA all had serial numbers in the 300 bracket.

When 5 AGRA went to Europe and became Army Troops (2 Army), it was allotted the serials 1191-1199 according to Hodges and Taylor, British Military Markings. The formation sign was that of the Army under which they came for command.

Also the AGRAs belonged to 15 Army Group in Italy and may have used a formation sign appropriate to that formation rather than an individual one. More importantly is that AGRA had white horizontal or diagonal lines on the plate in conjunction with the number, denoting their senior formation, i.e., army group, army, or corps.

Three figure numbers starting around 100 without any formation distinguishing bars were a distinction of a Corps Troops unit of the late 1950s in UK forces.

Keith
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  #15  
Old 22-01-18, 05:55 AM
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5 AGRA (AA) had 30, 44 and 77 HAA Regts, 35, 72 and 74 LAA Regts until it was disbanded in 1958.

Also 150 AAFC Bty.

Last edited by fairlie63; 22-01-18 at 05:57 AM. Reason: additional information
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