Motto for Field Service Cap - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Tinto · #1 09-10-13, 03:03 AM

Hi All,

I have this brooched medium size Motto which could be a collar badge modified to be a sweetheart badge. It measures 32mm from top to bottom, and 41mm at extreme width.

However, after looking at past threads on Mottos, I think it may be for a Field Service Cap. Were FSC badges often brooched?

Thanks, Tinto

tonyb · #2 09-10-13, 04:39 AM

Tinto,
I have a similar size motto lugged, I've hung onto in the hope it's for a FSC. So I'd be interested in the outcome of this one.
Cheers Tony.

GriffMJ · #3 09-10-13, 07:08 AM

Tony

Yours is the QVC Collar....

Tinto

Yours is the Cold War Officer Beret....... E/W loops removed and a pin & clasp in place.... Brooch ?

There is an earlier Gaunt Collar that is similar but not identical, I show them with the ERVII Gaunt Motto, I think this type were in Hugh Kings Cavalry collection that was sold by Bosleys a couple of years ago?

Tinto · #4 09-10-13, 07:12 AM

Thanks for that, Griff. I was hoping you might know the answer.
Cheers, Tinto

Robthereiver · #5 09-10-13, 07:55 AM

Hi Tony

Whilst I agree with Griff that yours is a QVC collar, as far as I understand matters, it is widely recognised that these collars were worn in O/R's FSC pre WWI in India for example.

So IMO to some extent your hope has been realised

.

Regards
Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyb

Tinto,
I have a similar size motto lugged, I've hung onto in the hope it's for a FSC. So I'd be interested in the outcome of this one.
Cheers Tony.

Robthereiver · #6 09-10-13, 08:00 AM

Hi Tinto

Whether a collar dog or a FSC motto, I think you are right this has been pin brooch for a sweetheart, and not for service wear.

Regards
Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinto

Hi All,

I have this brooched medium size Motto which could be a collar badge modified to be a sweetheart badge. It measures 32mm from top to bottom, and 41mm at extreme width.

However, after looking at past threads on Mottos, I think it may be for a Field Service Cap. Were FSC badges often brooched?

Thanks, Tinto

GriffMJ · #7 09-10-13, 08:37 AM

Rob

Can you show any images of this size Motto being worn on any headdress pre 1960? All the FFSC Officer images pre 1960 that I have show the full size Motto. I have one WW2 image that shows the very small Collar Motto on the Officers FFScap, 1945 (see below).

I have also attached a photo of a 17th/21stL B Sqn captain in Meerut, India, in 1939. He has a full size Motto in his FFSC.

I have also attached an image of a 17thL Officer in 1902, SA, that is wearing the FFScap with a full size Motto.

GriffMJ · #8 09-10-13, 08:54 AM

In detail:-

Type 2 = I believe there is an early type Collar (ERVII/GRV) and a later type Beret/FFSC (Post 1960)..... there is a difference in ribbon ends. The one in the photo I think is the Cold War Wm. Officers Beret badge.

Type 1 = Collar QVC type

* I have also attached a 17th/21st Lancer Cold War Officers FFSCap..... Wm. Small Motto.

GriffMJ · #9 09-10-13, 10:00 AM

Tinto

I have changed my mind about yours..... looking at it against my late Cold War Wm. Officers beret badge (also worn in the FFSC) ..... you can see the difference in the ribbon ends and eye shape.... so i think its the early collar

These are really tricky to get a grip of I must say.

Frank Kelley · #10 09-10-13, 12:13 PM

Hello Griff,
Superb photos, they really look the part too those fellows!
What sort of money are we talking about these days for a good full size pre WW2 HM silver motto?
Regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Rob

Can you show any images of this size Motto being worn on any headdress pre 1960? All the FFSC Officer images pre 1960 that I have show the full size Motto. I have one WW2 image that shows the very small Collar Motto on the Officers FFScap, 1945 (see below).

I have also attached a photo of a 17th/21stL B Sqn captain in Meerut, India, in 1939. He has a full size Motto in his FFSC.

I have also attached an image of a 17thL Officer in 1902, SA, that is wearing the FFScap with a full size Motto.

GriffMJ · #11 09-10-13, 12:21 PM

Thanks Frank

I think the Standard size Motto seen in those Officer photos are just ordinary Wm. with loops...... the HMd Silver Motto would have been reserved for the Dress cap. The khaki SD Cap would have a heavy guage plated or Wm. Motto similar to the HM Silver.

Frank Kelley · #12 09-10-13, 12:58 PM

Hello Griff,
Would you hazard a thought to prices these days, I know you would of course have to find one for sale!
Regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Thanks Frank

I think the Standard size Motto seen in those Officer photos are just ordinary Wm. with loops...... the HMd Silver Motto would have been reserved for the Dress cap. The khaki SD Cap would have a heavy guage plated or Wm. Motto similar to the HM Silver.

GriffMJ · #13 09-10-13, 01:06 PM

Frank

For what motto specifically? If its the HMd silver..... then depending on its date will determine its value.

Frank Kelley · #14 09-10-13, 03:29 PM

Hello Griff,
Well a rough price from Edwardian to 1945, so what would be a starting price do you feel?
Regards Frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Frank

For what motto specifically? If its the HMd silver..... then depending on its date will determine its value.

GriffMJ · #15 09-10-13, 03:35 PM

Frank

Genuine Standard Firmin or Gaunt Wm. = between £12-£40 (if you know what to look for amongst the vast multitude of crap)
Genuine HMd Silver = between £250 - £500 (If you can find one)