Corps of Military Police ERVIII

[P.Jones]

Does any one have a photograph they could post of a corps of military police badge KC Edward VIII. As I have never seen one Gaylor mentions one in his book. I don’t have a copy of K&K as yet. Were they ever issued?

Thanks Philip

[fougasse1940]

K&k don't mention it.

Regards,
Fougasse1940

[P.Jones]

Thanks for that Fougasse1940

Philip

[P.Jones]

I sent an e-mail to the RMP museum and received a very helpful and prompt reply.

“Thank you for your enquiry. As far as I am aware no Edward VIII cap badge was ever worn by the CMP. I have found some cap badges bearing the EviiiR mark on various internet sites but have not come across any CMP badges. The badges I have found (including Royal Engineers) are advertised as being very scarce, which indicates to me that they might have been prototypes only (though for the few months of Edward VIII’s reign not many would have needed to be made of course). If you have found reference to a CMP cap badge bearing this mark however, I would imagine that in that instance this was the case.”

Philip.

[Alan O]

The chances of regts and corps having used up all their old GVR cap badges in 8 months which caused them to a) Order b) Produce c) Issue EIIIR badges are somewhat remote. I have yet to see an EVIIR badge that I thought was genuine. Sealed 'prototypes' may have been produced by the makers and subsequently found there way out as firms shut down but this would have been in the single figures. I cannot see that there would have been a large order made in such a short period of time especially as he was never crowned. The Life Guards EVIIIR and the RE EVIIR are both faked by a well known badge faker.

Alan

[redcapsarge]

The RMP Museum is definately wrong (which is not surprising really).

A cap badge with Edward VIII cypher, with matching buttons, was produced and issued to those members of the Corps who were due to take part in his coronation. When that didnt take place, some badges were withdrawn and some personnel retained those they had been issued.

My father used to collect MMP/MFP/CMP/RMP uniforms and insignia and he had in his collection an Edward VIII CMP cap badge and buttons. They were given to him by an ex-work colleague who had been issued with the badges and then kept them.

Somewhere, I have a photo of the insignia collection which I use for reference, if I can find it I may be able to enlarge it to show the EVIII badge.

As far as we always knew, the badge he had was the only known example and he was frequently pestered by dealers to allow them to copy it, which he pointedly refused to do. The collection was sold en bloc and as far as I know, is still in the possession of the chap who bought it.

[Peter Brydon]

Interesting article by F.Stevens in Crown Imperial of Autumn 1993 on Badges of Corps of Royal Military Police.

Although he suggests there was no Edward VIII cypher badge, he does say-

" I have met 2 people in the past who have informed me that a Military Police badge exists with E VIII cypher"

The article also refers to another article in the MHS Bulletin of May 1972 titled " Badges and Buttons of the Military Police " by Lt.Col. N.Poulosom R.M.P. There appears to be no mention of any Edward VIII Military Police insignia in that article.

Isnt this what makes the hobby so fascinating ?

P.B.

[johnG]

Sorry, a bit off thread, but in 1952, before the battalion reverted to w/m badges and buttons, a Private in the Infantry Battalion of the HAC (Name known to me but witheld) showed me the buttons on a khaki, peaked hat he had just been issued with from the stores.

The buttons had an ER cypher and I immediately associated them with the new Queen and was astonished they had appeared so quickly, Then the penny dropped, the 'E' stood for Edward.

We put it down as an amazing co-incidemce.

The buttons on the cap were brass, with Imperial Crown over Royal Cypher, over a Flaming Grenade, same pattern as worn by the Grenadier Guards.
johnG

[redcapsarge]

I have tried to scan the picture to include just the E VIII R cap badge, the quality isnt great when you try to enlarge a 30yr old 6x4 photo I'm afraid, but here is the badge.

[Praepositus]

If I may add to the debate - my research has found that no CMP cap badge was issued officially during EVIIIR's short reign. However, there does appear to have been a set of uniform SD buttons with the EVIIIR cypher issued for each NCO, for wear on KD overseas. My primary source was the late Major (Retired) Harry Burden MBE MSM who was serving in the ranks at the time, and sources left by Lt Col N W Poulsom RMP, whose research (as has been mentioned) was published in the Military Historical Society Bulletin [Vol XX1 - May 1972]) but also in the RMP Corps Journal in a series of articles in 1971 and 1972.

[redcapsarge]

Originally Posted by Praepositus

If I may add to the debate - my research has found that no CMP cap badge was issued officially during EVIIIR's short reign. However, there does appear to have been a set of uniform SD buttons with the EVIIIR cypher issued for each NCO, for wear on KD overseas. My primary source was the late Major (Retired) Harry Burden MBE MSM who was serving in the ranks at the time, and sources left by Lt Col N W Poulsom RMP, whose research (as has been mentioned) was published in the Military Historical Society Bulletin [Vol XX1 - May 1972]) but also in the RMP Corps Journal in a series of articles in 1971 and 1972.

Yes, buttons did exist, as did the cap badge, although we were only ever able to source large and medium sized buttons, not cap size.

The original owner of the badge which was in my father's collection, as per the pic above, was a L/Cpl in CMP who was selected to take part in EVIIIR Coronation. He was issued with the badge and buttons for that purpose. When the Coronation did not take place, those issued were not withdrawn. This particular NCO kept his and when he was posted to Hong Kong the badges were left with his personal effects with his mother in London. He subsequently got taken POW in 1942 in Singapore.

In the 1970s he worked with my father and donated the badges and 3 remaining buttons to him. So I know that the providence of the badges was genuine. Whilst I cannot say that they were ever worn, there is no doubt that an EVIIIR cap badge was issued, albeit in a limited number.

[Praepositus]

News just in: I have been told that the RMP Museum has just recieved a most generous donation of a CMP ERVIII ORs cap badge. I will be visiting the Museum to undertake some research next month, and I will photograph the aforementioned badge and then post the details on this site as soon as I can.

Regards to all

Praepositus

[Praepositus]

Aldershot Command 1936.jpg

For interest, I attach a photograph (from the RMP Museum) of CMP personnel serving with the Aldershot Command in 1936. You will see the photo mount is embossed with a EVIIIR cap badge although one cannot determine from the photo itself, if the CMP members depicted therein are wearing the new but uncrowned King's cap badge.

Regards to all,

Praepositus

[Tinto]

Great photo, Praepositus. Thanks for showing it.
Cheers, Tinto

[Praepositus]

Tinto,

You are more than wlecome and as other MMP, MFP and CMP/RMP photos come up I will attempt to post them on this site too.

Regards,

Praepositus