Khaki berets. From the regiments.

[jf42]

Greetings all. With reference to recent discussions touching on the (re-)adoption of khaki berets by the Guards and various Line infantry regiments, I finally dug out some correspondence saved from my infancy, which I received in response to enquiries sent out to the various RHQs/Museums. I thought it might be worth sharing the word from the infantry's mouth.

To confirm:

The King's Division: King's Own Royal Border Regt., POW Own Regt of Yorks*, The Green Howards, Duke of Wellington's and Queen's Lancs., all adopted the khaki beret in 1983. Stated reasons for the change were variations on 'an/the infantry colour', with some reference to WW2.

The Royal Anglians' officers and W.O. 1's adopted the khaki beret in 1971 and, "following permission from the Army Dress Committee, all ranks" (No date supplied [1976]). "This reflected the khaki beret worn by the Royal Norfolk Regiment."

The Guards Museum informed me that the Guards Division changed to khaki from blue in 1967. "Khaki had been our colour during the war (like everyone else) and it was decided to be 'different.' "

I hope that is of some interest.
JF

[grenadierguardsman]

Good bit of info that, thanks.
Andy

[Hoot]

The Grenadier Guards were still wearing the dark blue beret in 1968 in Sharjah.

[jf42]

Originally Posted by Hoot

The Grenadier Guards were still wearing the dark blue beret in 1968 in Sharjah.

It seems that, the decision re. khaki berets having been made by the Colonels, it took some time to roll out amongst the regiments/battalions of the Foot Guards.

Thanks for prompting me to read about the Sharjah deployment in 'Once a Grenadier: The Grenadier Guards 1945-1995' which I found online. I enjoyed the quotation from the Commanding Officer of 1st Bn GG who declared "The Empire was won by men wearing long trousers and lost by men wearing shorts."

PS. The above book refers to the Grenadiers deployed to Northern Ireland in March 1974 wearing "brown berets which had replace the dark blue/black ones some five years earlier." - i.e. circa 1968-1969.

[Postwarden]

Interesting comment from the Guards on their wartime use of khaki berets.

The khaki beret was first introduced for Motor Battalions (ie infantry battalions mounted in armoured vehicles which could accompany tanks)and Senior officers although often worn by others unofficially. There use was later extended to all who had worn the Cap, GS.

There were several Guards Motor Battalions but I would have thought they were few in number compared with the tank equipped Guards Battalions who wore the RTR black beret with Guards cap badges.

Don't have access to Joslen at the moment so can't come up with the numbers for each.

Perhaps someone else can.

Jon
Jon

[grey_green_acorn]

Among Friends the History of the Scots Guards 1956-1993 by Murray Naylor shows a colour party mounted in an AFV432 wearing the dark blue beret in 1970.

Tim

[jf42]

I have to say that when I dug up the Guards Museum letter I was surprised to see the date '1967.' I had expected it to be later. I am looking at photos of 2 GG in NI 1969 still wearing the blue beret. Perhaps its time for another letter!

[jf42]

Originally Posted by Postwarden

Interesting comment from the Guards on their wartime use of khaki berets.

The khaki beret was first introduced for Motor Battalions (ie infantry battalions mounted in armoured vehicles which could accompany tanks)and Senior officers although often worn by others unofficially. There use was later extended to all who had worn the Cap, GS.

There were several Guards Motor Battalions but I would have thought they were few in number compared with the tank equipped Guards Battalions who wore the RTR black beret with Guards cap badges.

Don't have access to Joslen at the moment so can't come up with the numbers for each.

Perhaps someone else can.

Jon
Jon

I found this when looking into the WW2 background- http://www.ww2talk.com/index.php?thr...n-units.23759/

re Guards Motor battalions it lists

1st Grenadier Guards Guards Armoured Division
4th Coldstream Guards 6th Guards Tank Brigade

Only two motor battalions; were you thinking of as few as that?

[Postwarden]

Sounds about right. Seems sparse evidence for the use of a khaki beret.

Jon

[leigh kitchen]

My father claimed that 1WG wore the khaki beret, not the GS Cap when he was in the unit during WWII.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=we...vlEpg4V4QyYRM:

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by jf42

It seems that, the decision re. khaki berets having been made by the Colonels, it took some time to roll out amongst the regiments/battalions of the Foot Guards.

Thanks for prompting me to read about the Sharjah deployment in 'Once a Grenadier: The Grenadier Guards 1945-1995' which I found online. I enjoyed the quotation from the Commanding Officer of 1st Bn GG who declared "The Empire was won by men wearing long trousers and lost by men wearing shorts."

PS. The above book refers to the Grenadiers deployed to Northern Ireland in March 1974 wearing "brown berets which had replace the dark blue/black ones some five years earlier." - i.e. circa 1968-1969.

I remember seeing 1GG wearing khaki berets in Creggan during that tour (or later in 1974).

[jf42]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

My father claimed that 1WG wore the khaki beret, not the GS Cap when he was in the unit during WWII.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=we...vlEpg4V4QyYRM:

Isn't there is a distinction to be made between the khaki General Service cap, reputedly very unpopular with troops, which was made up of serge cloth and the beret 'proper' which was a 'one piece' of knitted, felted wool and deemed to be smarter? Whatever the aesthetic aspects there can have been no real operational difference. The GS cap replaced the pre-war khaki 'fore-and-aft' Field Service or 'side cap,' in 1943. I would have thought it was an improvement but I wasn't there.

The Welsh Guardsmen in the link are wearing the G.S cap.

[leigh kitchen]

Yes.

As for the linked image, I couldn't make up my mind as to whether the beret or GSC is shown.

[jf42]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Yes.

As for the linked image, I couldn't make up my mind as to whether the beret or GSC is shown.

The best 'tell' in my experience is the depth of the head band and the seam around the crown.

[leigh kitchen]

Yes - the features that make it look like a GSC. rather than a beret.
As I said, I've been unable to decide from that photo whether the headgear worn is one or the other.
Then again I am using phone not desktop.