The City of London Yeomanry previously judged as a fake

[2747andy]

Dave and David,
one good thing that has come out of this, is people will now know the features to look for? I'm sure Garry will polish off his guide! I have kept hold of my "Jennens" example as, as copies go, they have certainly pushed the boat out with this one!

Andy

[Nozzer]

Dave,

I have the same badge as you

I have been following this thread with interest and I must admit I am a little despondent about the whole thing. I didn't pay as much as you Dave, but I still paid too much for what now appears to be a pile of "doings"

these badges have been shown before;

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=30121

I don't mind copies/fakes whatever you want to call them, but I dislike immensely being conned I will be the first to admit that I have a lot to learn, but I think it might be time to take a break from badge collecting for a bit.

[2747andy]

Andy,
don't be put off otherwise the "Fakers" will have won! Collecting badges is like looking for a Fairy Princess, in that you may have to kiss a few frogs along the way!! No slur intended on our French members .

Andy

[orasot]

I'm confused, it seems Andy is talking about the small 2 part badge on lugs while Dave is talking about the larger badge with the price label on the back or am I just reading it wrong?
Wilf.

[2747andy]

Wilf,
no I'm 100% on about the larger lugged badge mentioned throughout the thread.

Andy

[Rockape]

You may have seen some observations regarding the fronts of badges already seen. Now we have some backplates removed, the information gained has produced some interesting observations about the rear of the badge.

1. The first badge shown in the opening post has the same central coat of arms device and same plate lugs as the badge Andy regards as his fake. Davec2 also has this badge.

2. The badge Andy regards as good has the same coat of arms device and plate lugs as Rockape's badge (see photo).

3. All the slidered badges do not have plate loops except for Wilf's example. I'm hoping Brian can show us the rear of his slidered Gaunt archive and other badge to verify this. This raises an interesting question...Why would a slider badge have a plate loops when it would be difficult for a user to remove the plate if the slider was parallel to the badge? This sort of suggests that the slider badge was worn on different headdress with no central backing. So then why does Wilf's badge have plate lugs? Were they added by someone to make it look authentic.

4. The other observation about Wilf's badge is that the rear of the coat of arms has different attachment points to any other badge shown. Does this suggest that there was a 2nd manufacturer?

[2747andy]

Garry,
Wilf's badge is very similar in construction to my IY badge, a SWAG would be that my badge like Wilf's was probably made by Gaunt and an early pattern, whereby previously lugged badges now left the factory with sliders (c.1903). The plate was to hold the backing cloth in place and it was probably dispensed with on later badges, as the slider could be utilised to carry out that function. So I would say slidered badges with retaining lugs to the rear are early examples used up from stock?

Andy

[Rockape]

The gaunt slider on Wilf's badge backs up the theory about early badges being made by Gaunt. However, the other slidered badges are from a different die entirely. See photos...look at the 4 diamond arrangement.

Why would Gaunt use two different dies?

Regarding the original point about the plates, why is your Imp Yeo badge plate a different design to the others seen? You need to show that photo by the way Andy

[davec2]

I'm in agreement with andyh on this !

Disappointed and despondent to the point of being racked off ??

You can safely assume that I would not have known about the size and positioning of the lettering round the circlet but it comes across, to my mind at least, that it is something that any dealer should be aware of, if this is the case, I have been sold two dodgy badges by the same man at Stratford, this " P's " me off.

Perhaps a break from badges wouldn't be a bad thing, at least my ears would get a rest from you know who ?? and I only have one decision to make, do I ' moth-ball ' my lot ? or do I just get rid ??

Dave.

[2747andy]

Garry,
the Victorian and Edwardian badges were far better made and often with crisper detail and depth! I've shown the images of my IY example, although the screw post fittings may mean it was a pouch badge and not a cap badge, but it is the same size and therefore when mounted and viewed from the front undetectable! The concave plate is probably nothing more than attention to detail something unaffordable in later years?

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Seeing as there are now many badges shown, I might as well add mine to the debate.

No pics with the back plates removed although I can probably do so if it really helps.

[2747andy]

Keith,
nice badges, which caused me to pull out K&K, I note my IY is absent SA honours (c.1902), which would narrow the period of wear with a KC and no SA! KK also states the badges are found with screw posts, so perhaps not a pouch fitting after all (?) the depth of the thread is only about 5mm so could be for a slouch hat?

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Keith,
nice badges, which caused me to pull out K&K, I note my IY is absent SA honours (c.1902), which would narrow the period of wear with a KC and no SA! KK also states the badges are found with screw posts, so perhaps not a pouch fitting after all (?) the depth of the thread is only about 5mm so could be for a slouch hat?

Andy

1902-05. Nice.

[LONGSHANKS]

I thought I'd also post mine as I see one's with sliders, but not slider and back plate.

Regards


Simon.

For reference also:

RR 1.jpgRR 2.jpgRR 3.jpgRR 4.jpgRR 5.jpg

Regards to all,

Peter.