Restrike Shoulder Titles

[raesherwood]

In common with large parts of British Engineering/Manufacturing in the 20th century, the Military Shoulder Title manufacturing sector witnessed many take-overs, mergers, factory closures and relocations. Many such changes took place in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Of known pre-WW1 manufacturers very few survived the millennium … Gaunt's absorbed both Jennen's and Pitt's; Firmin absorbed Gaunt's, Dowler's, Stratton and Smith & Wright. What do you think happened to the dies used to strike the titles?, far too many obsolete patterns to store.

Most titles are 'flat' and only require a female die for stamping-out; those with 'relief' require male and female dies (although possession of a female can result in the sometimes seen flat-backed die-cast front relief titles). Multi-tier titles (the 'T' Infantry/Corps and Yeomanry) are generally a brazed assemblage of two or more pressings; it would have been too expensive and time-consuming to fashion individual dies.

Many obsolete steel dies were broken-up and ended up in the scrap furnaces. Some were 'rescued' at closure auctions or from scrap dealers. In the 1970's and 1980's it was not unusual to come across dies at the Fairs (even today, 2 or 3 times a year, there are offerings on eBay).

In the early-mid 1970's I worked in Engineering, involved in multi-site operations with Toolrooms and Press-shops (both Power and Fly), with factory closures resulting in Bliss power presses being sold off to former colonial countries (yes, sadly we were exporting technology and manufacturing jobs even back then) and fly presses being scrapped or auctioned off.

With dies and presses available/obtained it was not unknown for restrikes to be 'commissioned' in the late 1970's and 1980's. I took a 20 year holiday from collecting, and upon resumption found many past contacts were no longer around, so what has happened to the dies and the 'restrikers' is a mystery.

Over 30-40 years, restrike titles from original dies, have developed a natural patina, which can always be 'accelerated' by brass ageing techniques (just google 'ageing brass' to see recommended processes … saltwater, heat, vinegar, chemical solutions, etc.).

Restrikes are generally exact copies, but why do so few of them ever display evidence of cleaning/wear? That brasso residue on edges of lettering and cut-outs, or that smooth finish to high points, or the flat, from the old soldiers cardboard and brasso cleaning, suggestive of actual wear. Of course all Regimental QM Stores would have had unissued titles to be disposed off after disbandments (I wasn't around so have no idea of disposal procedures post WW1).

My purpose in writing this is to give food for thought. Caveat emptor.

[paj1]

Yes when you see the prices that some of the shoulder titles fetch now
it would be very tempting for a dishonest person to start to produce
restrikes and cash in on them. very sad for this great hobby
paj1

[Vincent]

This is importants talks to avoid buying fakes and so on. The trouble seems to be much important in these days
Difficult to see diffrences between fakes and genuine nowadays. Is there really solution we can bring now ? Improved originals badges database ? Not sure.

[paj1]

Does anyone know the place or places where these restrke s-titles are
coming from ?

[raesherwood]

This beggars the argument ... is a 'restrike' from original dies acceptable?

The Purist will say "No, unless it can be proven to be worn at the time of the units operations, then it is a fake".

The Realist will say "If made from original dies, then it is an exact representation, indistinguishable from an original, of that unit's title, and anyways who has the money to be over-fussy?".

Unless I win the Euromillions lottery then I have to be a 'Realist' . I just get frustrated when 'purist' prices are paid for 'realist' titles.

And, thankfully I have no evidence that the 70's and 80's practices have been continued ... conscience, or lesser than warranted returns for efforts back then? who knows?

[ncc]

theres no evidence that titles were restruck in the 70's,what would be the point.
i still have my stock book from 1973,couldn't give the bloody things away.
as with everything little interest until the books came out.
Bob

[paj1]

i think most collectors would want their shoulder titles or any militaria
that they collect to have been made during the period in which they
were in use. not made years later.
unless you are happy to have a restrike and you are told this when you
buy the item.
paj1

[raesherwood]

Originally Posted by ncc

theres no evidence that titles were restruck in the 70's,what would be the point.
Bob

And I thought denial was a river in Egypt

[ncc]

we all knew where the restrike badges were coming from in the 70s,they had buckets of badges, what ever you could think of and some that were more expensive to buy as a restrike than what you could sell real ones for.
i guess they just restruck what ever they had dies for.
but there were never any buckets of collars or titles.perhap i didn't go to the right people.
all manner of titles were made up out of existing bits but thats not the same as restruck.
i know all the city battallion titles etc were restruck,but i am pretty sure that was in the 80's,but it is hard to remember.
the cast t titles etc are a pretty recent thing.
if you have evidence that ordinary titles were restruck back then i would like to see it. i still struggle to get a pound or two for some original ones now!
Bob

[Jibba Jabba]

I'm pretty sure there were a few Lancers shoulder titles that were redone around 1996. I bought some of the copies and still have them. They were done around the same time as the gilded rare Lancer buttons....21st Lancers etc. It was Derek who first showed me those.

There are more recent Lancer copies......they even have the restrike backing plates made in the WW1 ribbed style!

[ncc]

i am sure your right.
but are these not done by lost wax casting.
very good but slightly smaller than the originals?
Bob

[Rob Miller]

The lower and L/H pair of Cyclist titles shown below were sold to me about 4 years ago as repros which were part of a small batch made for a re-enactment group, I've since bought the other 2 (upper and R/H) which I think are genuine.

The prepros are quite bendy. I'm going to sell the repros on but before I do I intend to stamp something on the back, maybe an "R" for repro? but there isn't much room

[Dr B]

Let us define the plethoria of badges offered. I use the following criteria.
Remember, the demand is market-driven. No market, no bogus badges offered.
1. Authentic: Issued to the individual for wear on his uniform
2. Restrike: Often from the same die. Sold in musems, to re-enactors and for tv, movies, etc. Nearly impossible to differentiate between "authentic" and "restrike" unless the provence is known.
3. Bogus: Different dies, sloppy construction, realitively easy for a "badge-hound" to differentiate. (Ex: 6th Dragoons cap badge)
4. Fantasy: Different metals from original, different pattern. Sold from "estate clearence, veterans "bring home," "Officers or NCO strike". ..basicly anything that would explain the odd appearence of the badge.
Any of the fantasy criteria could be applied to the above categories. (and have been)
ST's are a little "safer" to buy as the common ones are still realitively cheap, but the tiered ones are becoming expensive. The cap badge area has become a minefield.
Doc B

[badgecollector]

hi guys
what are your thoughts of this badge? i picked it up this weekend at an antique shop in the bush. the store was dark and i thought i had a bargain at $5 but late in the day when i had a look at it in the light im not as happy.
the 6 brased onto the badge and the dreaded footed lugs..
bc

[raesherwood]

As others have pointed out, in the 1970's shoulder titles were a neglected and unfashionable sector of Military Badge Collecting, most being unworthy of dealer listing (pre-internet) and generally not displayed openly at Fairs. Nobody was going to spend money tooling-up to produce 'common' titles when the restrike cap badge market was more lucrative. Except, that is, for some of the 'Pals' whose dies were available. Thus 1 - 4 King's, and 1 – 8 Manchester were 'commissioned' (followed later by HMRR Dragoons, Dragoon Guards & Hussars, but not Tyneside Scottish, Sportsmans, Birmingham Pals etc … these came much later). The titles were manufactured in Birmingham, upon instruction from a dealer in the Eastern half of the country, and subsequently distributed by at least two dealers at Midlands Fairs (maybe wider-scale), in a number of militaria retail outlets and via a number of dealer hard-copy listings. The laws on libel restrict further discussion.

What changed things? The publication of Ray Westlake's first reference book 'Military Metal Shoulder Titles – Volume 1 – Infantry', published by Roger Verner & Sons in 1977.

So, what happened then? Infantry a bit contentious now, how about 'T' titles? We've got a T / RFA blank, let's marry it up to common Infantry titles, so we get such unworthy examples as T / RFA / R W KENT (an example dug out from my scrap box, pictures attached) / DORSET / LINCOLN / WELCH / DEVON and others. All have the same unworn/unissued look with three 'flat/spade' lugs. Even today a respected dealer is offering T / RFA / GORDON (I wouldn't mind betting on the lug pattern, it's condition and the distinctive look of the T / RFA 'top bit').

So? Ray Westlake releases his second book encompassing the whole range of shoulder titles worn 'Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles', published by Frederick Warne in 1980. Damn! But by now titles have changed hands and been moved-on and -around, even achieving 'authenticity' at Auctions.

A few years later I take a holiday from collecting for 20 years, so leave others to fill in the subsequent history of 'restrikes'.