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  #1  
Old 19-02-17, 07:51 PM
Dannyboy759 Dannyboy759 is offline
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Default Yorkshire Hussars Cap badge

Ive just found out that my great grandfather, prior to WW1, which he was ASC, was in the Yorkshire Hussars.
I know what the cap badge looks like but unsure if theres a pre WW1 version or it would just be the normal brass type they used in the great war!
Any help would be much appreciated, thanks in advance
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  #2  
Old 19-02-17, 09:22 PM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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It's the same bi-metal pattern as worn up until 1956.
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  #3  
Old 20-02-17, 09:00 PM
Dannyboy759 Dannyboy759 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
It's the same bi-metal pattern as worn up until 1956.
Is there any way of telling and earlier version or ruling out the later?
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Old 21-02-17, 12:23 AM
Hoot Hoot is offline
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Not that I am aware of but possibly maker's marks might give clues to a badge's age. The Yorkshire experts might know more.
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  #5  
Old 21-02-17, 05:03 AM
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Malcolm Davey Malcolm Davey is offline
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Before 1903 badges had lug/loop fixings 1903 to 1906 elongated slider/vertical shank introduced. After 1906 the slider/vertical shank was reduced in size, so your badge is either pre or post 1906.

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  #6  
Old 21-02-17, 08:32 AM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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I don't necessarily agree with the dates for these as the Yeomanry (and TF) were exempt from this direction as they bought their own badges etc until 1915. A search of the IWM does not show the cap badge sealed pattern card but it does have the s/t sealed in 1916. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/se...Hussars&query=

KLR may have a date for the Yorkshire Hussars badge; but the Army did not seal all Yeomanry pattern badges in 1915. Quite a few were not catered for by the Army at all and others only had sealed patterns after reformation in 1920. Even then some Yeomanry regts were issued with RTC or RA badges in the 1920s and did not get their old Yeomanry designs back until the 1930s or even '40s in some cases. The 'senior' yeomanry regts remained in role with their own cap badges: whilst the junior ones were either re-badged or even not reformed at all.

The Yorkshire Hussars were reformed in 1920 with their own badge. Unfortunately they have been widely faked. If I was looking for an original early badge then I would look for the brasing hole behind the coronet and/or the strengthening bar behind the centre: which are lacking in the modern ones.

Last edited by Alan O; 21-02-17 at 09:21 AM.
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  #7  
Old 21-02-17, 01:58 PM
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2 photos from 1915 of YH troopers with their TF provided bi-metal badges.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...347-postcards/
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  #8  
Old 21-02-17, 02:06 PM
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And from http://britishempire.co.uk/forces/ar...irehussars.htm

an interesting snippet about their time as a Battalion of the West Yorks:

9th Battalion, 11th Oct 1917

However, it seems that the regiment did survive as a unit. They were initially sent for 5 or 6 weeks infantry training and then on the 11th Oct 1917 they went to Zudrove, 20 officers and 396 other ranks. They joined the 9th West Yorkshires in the 32nd Brigade, 11th Division. They were a complete battalion, called the 9th (Yorkshire Hussars) Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment. They wore their regimental cap-badges but West Yorks collar badges, and were commanded by Lt-Col F P Worsley DSO. They were at Passchendale in the line north of Lens and then carried out a successful raid on the Norman Brickstacks. This was led by Captain Roger Walker and consisted of 250 men. One of the officers was killed, Lt C S Haslam.
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Old 21-02-17, 02:50 PM
FMT600 FMT600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
And from http://britishempire.co.uk/forces/ar...irehussars.htm

an interesting snippet about their time as a Battalion of the West Yorks:

9th Battalion, 11th Oct 1917

However, it seems that the regiment did survive as a unit. They were initially sent for 5 or 6 weeks infantry training and then on the 11th Oct 1917 they went to Zudrove, 20 officers and 396 other ranks. They joined the 9th West Yorkshires in the 32nd Brigade, 11th Division. They were a complete battalion, called the 9th (Yorkshire Hussars) Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment. They wore their regimental cap-badges but West Yorks collar badges, and were commanded by Lt-Col F P Worsley DSO. They were at Passchendale in the line north of Lens and then carried out a successful raid on the Norman Brickstacks. This was led by Captain Roger Walker and consisted of 250 men. One of the officers was killed, Lt C S Haslam.
Alan,

I'm not quite sure where your info came from but as the 9th was a well established, experienced and battle proven but admittedly depleted (through Battle casualties) Battalion. I doubt that the YH cap badge was officially adopted, possibly retained by the YH intake unofficially or within the YD officered companies but I doubt it would have been adopted by the West Yorkshire Regiment soldiers.

A potted history of the 9th Battalion follows:

9th (Service) Battalion

25.08.1914 Formed at York as part of the first New Army (K1) and moved to Belton Park, Grantham as part of the 32nd Brigade of the 11th Division.
April 1915 Moved to Witley Camp, Godalming

03.07.1915 Embarked for Gallipoli from Liverpool via Mudros.

06.08.1915 Landed at Suvla Bay and engaged in various actions against the Turkish Army including;
The Battle of Sari Bair.

20.12.1915 Evacuated from Gallipoli to Egypt due to severe casualties from combat, disease and harsh weather.

07.02.1916 Arrived in Egypt and took over part of the Suez Canal defences.

01.07.1916 Moved to France landing at Marseilles and engaged in various actions on the Western Front including;

The capture of the Wundt-Werk, The Battle of Flers-Courcelette, The Battle of Thiepval.

1917
Operations on the Ancre, The Battle of Messines, The Battle of the Langemarck, The Battle of Polygon Wood, The Battle of Broodseinde, The Battle of Poelcapelle.

13.11.1917 Absorbed 400 men of all ranks from the Yorkshire Hussars to become the 9th (Yorkshire Hussars Yeomanry) Battalion.

1918
The Battle of the Scarpe, The Battle of the Drocourt-Quant Line, The Battle of the Canal du Nord, The Battle of Cambrai 1918, The pursuit to the Selle, The Battle of the Sambre.
11.11.1918 Ended the war Bettignies north of Maubeuge, France.

Regards,

FMT600
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  #10  
Old 21-02-17, 02:52 PM
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Alan O Alan O is offline
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It came from the link to the website which you included in the reply.

The attribution is also here:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/...of-waless-own/

◾13 November 1917 : 400 men were absorbed into 9th (Service) Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, which now adopted the title 9th (Yorkshire Hussars Yeomanry) Battalion.

I suspect the old Yeoman continued to wear their Yeoman badges but the West Yorks men and reinforcements wore their horse. Such an arrangement was seen elsewhere with yeomanry regts converting to Infantry such as the F&F yeo/14th Bn BW with contemporary photos showing both badges in use by the same unit.

Last edited by Alan O; 21-02-17 at 03:09 PM. Reason: sp
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  #11  
Old 21-02-17, 03:08 PM
FMT600 FMT600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
I don't necessarily agree with the dates for these as the Yeomanry (and TF) were exempt from this direction as they bought their own badges etc until 1915. A search of the IWM does not show the cap badge sealed pattern card but it does have the s/t sealed in 1916. http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/se...Hussars&query=

KLR may have a date for the Yorkshire Hussars badge; but the Army did not seal all Yeomanry pattern badges in 1915. Quite a few were not catered for by the Army at all and others only had sealed patterns after reformation in 1920. Even then some Yeomanry regts were issued with RTC or RA badges in the 1920s and did not get their old Yeomanry designs back until the 1930s or even '40s in some cases. The 'senior' yeomanry regts remained in role with their own cap badges: whilst the junior ones were either re-badged or even not reformed at all.

The Yorkshire Hussars were reformed in 1920 with their own badge. Unfortunately they have been widely faked. If I was looking for an original early badge then I would look for the brasing hole behind the coronet and/or the strengthening bar behind the centre: which are lacking in the modern ones.
There are a number of differing designs/variations to the YH bi-metal cap badge, no doubt brought about by both its longevity and as Alan points out for much of its life purchased by the Regiment and not issued. As Alan also points out it has been well and truly copied to death and to be on the safe side I would go for a multi part example complete with brazing hole behind the cornet, if you can not find a multi part example the version with the brass re-enforcing strip would also be a safe bet assuming it has a brazing hole behind the cornet, be aware of sliders fitted to the rear of the cornet (quite convenient for hiding the fact that the badge has no brazing hole).

Regards,

FMT600
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  #12  
Old 21-02-17, 03:11 PM
FMT600 FMT600 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
It came from the link to the website which you included in the reply.

The attribution is also here:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/...of-waless-own/

◾13 November 1917 : 400 men were absorbed into 9th (Service) Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment, which now adopted the title 9th (Yorkshire Hussars Yeomanry) Battalion.

I suspect the old Yeoman continued to wear their Yeoman badges but the West Yorks men and reinforcements wore their horse. Such an arrangement was seen elsewhere with yeomanry regts converting to Infantry such as the F&F yeo/14th Bn BW with contemporary photos showing both badges in use by the same unit.
As per my other post regarding the 9th west yorks, I think the above is quite feasible,

FMT600
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