Yeo NCO rank badges

[badjez]

I'm seeking information.

Looking through responses to the 1919 IWM questionnaire on WW1 Dress and equipment I noted that both the ex-CO of the Lincs Yeo, and Essex Yeo had identified that NCO of their regiments wore regimental badges above their chevrons.

In the case of the Lincs Yeo this was described as a Fleur-de-Lys.

The Essex Yeo is stranger, as the badge was apparently adopted post-hostilities, but the questionnaire was completed before the regiment was re-formed in 1921!

Any ideas?

Stephen.

[Expat Yeoman]

Stephen,

I think I've seen the same submission at the IWM. Frustratingly Whitmore says a badge was worn but doesn't elaborate further.

The regimental pattern Decus et Tutamen cypher was introduced for full dress c. 1937 in advance of the Coronation. Prior to that then the standard RA SNCO gun badge was worn on BD (or equivalent) so that is perhaps what he was referring to..?

Michael

[badjez]

Michael,

I don't think it is the gun as it wasn't worn that early (unless 54Bty can assist further?)

Stephen

20.06.34. ACI 173: Decision that serjeants of the RA shall wear the ‘Gun, gilding metal’ above the rank chevrons on the greatcoat as well as khaki drill and service dress jackets, and approval is given for a free issue of two guns, gilding metal to all such personnel and also to NCO on promotion to the rank of serjeant.

[Expat Yeoman]

Thank you Stephen.

If not a gun then I'm inclined to say that nothing was worn then post WW1 and in the twenties. I've not seen any photos for that period showing any badge.

On the gun itself, thank you that helps narrow down date of use - no earlier than 1934 then. I have only ever seen the embroidered gun badge worn by EY though not the GM one. I'd be very interested to hear if you have seen the latter worn by EY Sergeants.

[54Bty]

The metal gun badge was introduced in the Royal Regiment of Artillery in 1906, however they (EY) would not have worn it prior to being converted to Artillery, if of course they (EY) did wear it.

Marc

[badjez]

Originally Posted by Expat Yeoman

Thank you Stephen.

If not a gun then I'm inclined to say that nothing was worn then post WW1 and in the twenties. I've not seen any photos for that period showing any badge.

On the gun itself, thank you that helps narrow down date of use - no earlier than 1934 then. I have only ever seen the embroidered gun badge worn by EY though not the GM one. I'd be very interested to hear if you have seen the latter worn by EY Sergeants.

Michael & Marc,
Thanks for info. Sorry no photos of a cloth gun or regimental NCO badge in wear.

Stephen.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by badjez

Michael & Marc,
Thanks for info. Sorry no photos of a cloth gun or regimental NCO badge in wear.

Stephen.

If you can get to a copy of Litchfield's TA book there are a few paragraphs on the various Essex Yeomanry RA converted Regt's, with what they wore.

Marc

[badjez]

Thanks Marc.

[Expat Yeoman]

Many thanks Marc, I've got a copy of his book on its way to me and am interested to see what he has to say on this.

[Expat Yeoman]

Marc, I got a copy of Litchfield's book on Territorial gunners which is excellent and filled in many knowledge gaps for me, however, it couldn't answer the specific question I had - namely at what point did the cloth SNCO arm badge come into use. Can you help on that please? (image attached of one half of the facing pair). Many thanks in advance.

Michael

[Postwarden]

War Clothing Regulations 1941 instruct that badges and chevrons for battle dress, service dress and drab greatcoats will be worsted.

A March 1939 letter to All Commands notifying them of the introduction of BD says the same and adds that patterns of cloth badges were under consideration where they did not already exist.

The photo shows the rectangular badge on BD but there are many other photos that show that the brass gun continued to be worn.

Jon

[Expat Yeoman]

Many thanks Jon, that's great - gives me a "not before" date.

I haven't seen any photos of EY sergeants wearing the brass badges prior to that, but it must remain a possibility.

Thanks again.

Michael