Canadian Infantry Corps tunic

[Bill A]

This tunic is being offered on ebay. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/WWII-Canadian...SS%3AUS%3A3160.
The vendor has indicated an interesting story for the tunic.
Not sure what to think about the tunic. Being restored is one aspect, but the combination of patches is very unusual. It would only have been worn for a short period of time with the CIC patches. They were authorized late in 1944 and the shield part was not worn overseas. So, it must have been for a soldier who did not procede overseas. Further, the top part of the shield was ordered removed in the spring of 1945. This would suggest that he left the army before that time. All possible.
Finally, the USA patch was worn unofficially in Canada up until circa 1942, but then it was not to be worn.
A buyer is being asked to take a lot on trust if they were to purchase this tunic.

[48th]

I also saw this tunic and it made me scratch my head. I would never bid on it. But It is one of those things that is so strange it might actually be original. Most BD's that are restored/faked go for more desirable units.

[edstorey]

I know the vendor, he is a long time and well known collector - I have bought from him in the past without any problem. I will agree this is a very strange BD badge combination.

I am not associated with the sale of this item.

[GregN]

I also know this collector well and happily do business with him.

Greg

[Bill A]

Again, the comments are not about the vendor, but the item on auction. There are several comments on a FB page about this tunic including a response from the vendor outlining his understanding of the garment. It is an extremely odd combination of insignia. It is not what would be worn be a soldier in a reserve battalion of the Canadian Army.

After I read the description, I am not sure what to think. A buyer is taking a lot on trust on this, and it is not cheap.
18 hrs · Like · 4
Bill Alexander: One thing for sure. The USA patches are NOT issue. They were private purchase, never authorized by NDHQ.
17 hrs · Like · 2
Mark W.Tonner: I usually don’t comment on these things but, although the blouse itself may be an authentic BD blouse, the badging is totally off, for a Piper, who apparently only served with the 2nd (Reserve) Battalion, The Essex Scottish Regiment. Even the narrative of the soldier’s history is suspect, and it was the 1st Battalion, The Essex Scottish Regiment, that was at Dieppe, not the 2nd (Reserve) Battalion. The only tasking the 2nd (Reserve) Battalion received during the period of the Second World War, was of being allocated to the 31st (Reserve) Brigade Group (within Military District No. 1), from 1 April 1942 to 28 November 1945. With the disbandment of the 1st Battalion, The Essex Scottish Regiment, the 2nd (Reserve) Battalion, was redesignated The Essex Scottish Regiment, effective 15 December 1945.
16 hrs · Like · 3
Vendor response (I have edited his name): The info in the eBay listing is exactly as the veteran told me, and although I tried, it could not be verified, but then it is more info than most collectors or museums usually get with any uniform. One military museum I know of in Canada had a Curator who deliberately kept no accession records (actually I know of several such cases) and many museums (every one of the many that I worked in --- society, village, city and federal) have very poor and incomplete records. I provided a BD blouse to the museum after the "no records Curator" ( the late Major Derek Brown) left. This blouse had full documentation (man's insignia all still in place, his army documents, his photo album, and his life story prepared by his Neice.) It is now the best documented artifact in the entire museum. I clearly stated in the eBay listing that 1st Bn Essex Scottish was at Dieppe and my Dad served with 1 Bn (after Dieppe) which is why the vet offered the blouse and badges to me. This man said he was in the 2nd Bn Essex Scottish as a piper and I clearly stated in the listing that he did NOT go overseas. The GS badge was normally only worn in Canada. I won't argue with Bill Alexander about the private purchase aspect of the USA titles, but the physical evidence clearly shows that official or not, they WERE worn i.e. CFPU photo, physical evidence that this pair had been sewn to a uniform and they came directly from the veteran. In a perfect World, the insignia would have been left on the blouse by the vet and there would be multiple dated colour photos of him wearing it. It is what it is. Nothing is hidden from a potential buyer and yes there are questions as stated in the listing. As to the high price, that reflects the rarity, but please feel free to provide any sales price info on any other Canadian Army WWII uniforms that have USA titles on or with them. I am not asking buyers to take a lot of trust because I have 100% perfect score on eBay of well over 1,000 transactions and 40 years of work career in museums. It is what it is - mysteries yes (history us not as tidy as we would wish) but nothing hidden from buyers and no false claims. I am curious about Mark's comment that the badges are totally off for a 2nd Bn piper. Except for the USA titles the rest is "typical" for home service I believe - though the Infantry Corps patches are indeed uncommon.
8 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
Bill Alexander: Hello xxxx, The badges on the tunic were not worn by reserve battalions. Coloured shoulder titles were only authorized for active service battalions, and the use of coloured titles was actually used as a distinction between the active service units and reserve units. The coloured titles were to be worn by active service personnel only. There are, as always, a couple of exceptions to this rule. But, those exceptions were dealt with and the reserve units using them were ordered to take them down. Reserve units were not allowed to wear coloured embroidered titles until the policy was changed in 1946. The only authorized insignia for reserve battalions were the khaki worsted slip-ons. The proper insignia for a 2nd Bn Essex Scottish private would be the worsted slip-ons reading ESSEX / SCOTTISH, the Canada nationality titles and any rank or qualification badges. As indicated, the USA patches were unofficial and unauthorized, and thus subject to the old maxim of begging foregiveness rather than asking permission.
5 hrs · Edited · Like
Mark W. Tonner: Hi xxxx, although Bill as partially said to what I was going to say, I just wanted to say that at no time during the period of the Second World War, was the 2nd Battalion, a ‘home defence battalion.’ The battalion was never placed on ‘Active’ service, nor was parts thereof. They remained a Non-Permanent Active Militia/Canadian Army (Reserve) battalion throughout the war years, with no ‘operational’ commitments. Their only change during the war years, was being reallocated from the 1st (Reserve) Infantry Brigade, to the 31st (Reserve) Brigade Group, in April 1942, and back again to the 1st (Reserve) Infantry Brigade, in November 1945.

[manchesters]

Listing has ended??

[Bill A]

Yes the vendor indicated that with the questions about the tunic he was going to pull the auction.