Army Scout Badges

[grey_green_acorn]

I have just posted an album of British Army Proficiency Badges which included a few Army Scout items. As requested here are some close ups and rear views. Large and small version with bar. Small version without bar.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hp?albumid=588

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is a worsted version and for interest an early Boy Scout badge (also designed by Lord Baden-Powell) worn on the front of the felt "slouch hat" from 1908.

[GriffMJ]

You are a Gentleman Sir.... many thanks

Just for interest also :-



Significant Trade Badge : SCOUT
The brass badge was devised by Baden-Powell in 1897 when he was serving in India with the 5th Dragoon Guards and awarded to Army Scouts he had trained. It was adopted throughout the British Army in 1905 and continued in use until the end of the Great War in 1918. The badge was issued in two sizes, the one pictured is the larger and is often referred to as the First Class badge, a smaller being the Second Class badge. Each came in two versions, with or without a bar under the arrow. The version photographed has the bar. An unatributed text that states that the bar signified that the holder held the rank of corporal. Each Arm Badge has a smaller version "Cap Badge" also, I dont know if it was worn alongside the regimental cap badge (or instaed of)?

* See the "Northumberland Hussars Sergeant" picture (in the Yeomanry Cavalry NCO Arm badge Album) to see the smaller type Senior Ranks badge being worn.
** The Oxfordshire Hussars had their own pattern (in the Yeomanry Cavalry NCO Arm badge Album).

Thought the following images might be of interest to this thread... the first is of a Civil Service Rifles Cadet, wearing an 'Army Scout' badge, and the second is of a L/Cpl of the QVRs wearing (what I believe to be) a '1st Class Army Scout' badge:

CSR Cadet.jpg9th London 1st Class Army Scout.jpg

Regards,

Peter.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

You are a Gentleman Sir.... many thanks

Just for interest also :-



Significant Trade Badge : SCOUT
The brass badge was devised by Baden-Powell in 1897 when he was serving in India with the 5th Dragoon Guards and awarded to Army Scouts he had trained. It was adopted throughout the British Army in 1905 and continued in use until the end of the Great War in 1918. The badge was issued in two sizes, the one pictured is the larger and is often referred to as the First Class badge, a smaller being the Second Class badge. Each came in two versions, with or without a bar under the arrow. The version photographed has the bar. An unatributed text that states that the bar signified that the holder held the rank of corporal. Each Arm Badge has a smaller version "Cap Badge" also, I dont know if it was worn alongside the regimental cap badge (or instaed of)?

* See the "Northumberland Hussars Sergeant" picture (in the Yeomanry Cavalry NCO Arm badge Album) to see the smaller type Senior Ranks badge being worn.
** The Oxfordshire Hussars had their own pattern (in the Yeomanry Cavalry NCO Arm badge Album).

Some misinformation here!

Size means nothing! The large badges, with and without bar, were replaced from 1907 [by order RACD] by smaller versions. All "brass" scout badges came with a black felt backing. Worsted versions were never an Ordnance issue, but knocked up by various tailoring firms during the Great War, hence so many variants. These badges were the only ones [in all the trade, skill-at-arms, appointment etc badges] described as "brass" ..... all other metal ones were "gilding metal".

The cross bar signifies Scout First Class, the one without was Second Class. Infantry and cavalry units were established with Scouts, under a Scout Officer [secondary duty] and a sergeant. Scouts were sub-divided into unit and sub-unit. The First class ones tended to be NCOs, and tended to be unit scouts.
These distinctions, and the additional rasks of sniping and observation, evolved during the trench war, when "scouting" for the enemy was a bit straightforward until mid-1918!

Infantry from India had a totally different badge: the very small elegant S in wreath ..... almost the earliest "in wreath" badge, worn left cuff, in metal and worsted. [the earliest was probably VS in wreath, worsted, awarded in the Peninsula War to Valiant Stormers]


The badge was not abolished until 1921, after which units in India improvised with brassards.

[Lancer 17]

Hi Guys

I have put a post on this to bring it to the top so I can find it again and print it out. Thanks for the info GGA & Griff

Regards

Phil.

[JerryBB]

The pre 1907 larger version, first class. I wondered how long this version took to be withdrawn.

[Mike B]

Any truth in a recollection from the dim and distant past that the badge may have taken its form from the north point of a compass? - Its been a very long day ... I may well be dreaming zzzzzzz

Ah - just looked at British Army Proficiency Badges by Edwards and Langley - apparently it was so

Some other good info in there too as attached - look at item 106

[Mike B]

Grey -green-acorn
Is is possible that your worsted badge is more like 106 of Edward and Langley - 47th Divisional Sniper (and possibly others) - as my posting above.
Mike

[mac mcconnell]

Just found this thread just what I needed just picked up this locally made scouts badge, but of interest on the rear it has a name F H Ruck 21.L. Theres a fantastic picture in Linaker and Dine of 4 21st Lancer NCO scouts the badges are the bigger and seem to vary in size and design page 18

Rgs Mac

[Sock Monkey VC]

Just by way of a bit of a bump, I have a fellow trying to sell me one of the "no bar" scout badges in brass. Is there an established value for this type of badge? I don't want to overspend.

Thanks,

Monkey

[MH331]

Monkey,

Anywhere from £35-70(ebay and dealers) I would say £40-45 would be a fair price collector to collector.

regards

[Sock Monkey VC]

Thanks for that MH. I appreciate it.

Monkey

[mac mcconnell]

I have a large and a smaller variant am I to understand that in 1907 the Larger badge was no longer used and the smaller one was and the difference on first or 2nd class is based on the Bar ?

Best Mac

[manchesters]

Here are my army Scouts badges including the rare WM large badges.

I would be interested to see if anyone has any small Army Scouts badges in WM??

regards