Help Please

[geezer#199]

Gentlemen

I just received the attached picture from my sister in law, who was born and raised in South Africa. She has since moved to Canada and was awarded Queen Elizabeth's Diamond Jubilee Medal.

She is presently in South Africa visiting her mother and brother's for Christmas and her mother brought out the Medals in the picture. The Medals and other items were awarded to her grand father. I know some of the Medals but not all of them, WW1 and WW 2 issue.

Could anyone help me out.

Also, the miniature Medal bar, the Medal on the right (Cross), my sister in law says that they have the large Medal but are missing the ribbon, would it be easy to obtain a repalcement ribbon?

Thanks in advance and I hope all are ready for Christmas.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all

Jack

[Brian Conyngham]

Jack

A stunning group!!!! well it is actually 2 groups. A Military Cross WW1, trio and Italian War Merit Cross and WW1 Pair, WW2 War Medal and Africa Service Medal.

Appears one of the chaps served with the Natal Carbineers as per the badges.

The cross on the right was the Italian War Merit Cross (WW1), ribbon is obtainable but suspect the best place would be from the UK.

What are the names on the medals, we can possibly do some research on the men for you.

Regards
Brian

[grenadierguardsman]

Not teaching you to suck eggs, but you must keep those Medals together. Maybe get them mounted, possibly with photos. Very nice.

[geezer#199]

Brian and GG Man

Thanks for your prompt reply and GG Man yes they will be kept together, I got quite a laugh as to your terminology as far as sucking eggs. I agree they should be properly mounted and displayed in a shadow box with appropriate pictures.

This is what I know about the person the Medals were awarded too. My sister in laws grandfather was Captain Hugh Merton Graham. He served in the first and second world war. He was born in Broadstairs, Kent and before WW 1 he was secretary to the British Ambassador in Budapest, Hungary. When the war started he joined the Naval Brigade ans was wounded in the Gallipolli campaign. He then transfered to the Army. He was an officer in the British Military Intelligence and made several trips behind the enemy lines on secret missions, making the journey on foot through Austria to Vienna. He was awarded the Military Cross and the Merito Di Guerro. After the armistice, he commnaded the first relief train sent into Vienna.

He moved to South Africa under a settlement scheme and in partneship with another individual bought an existing farm.

In 1938 he married and the farm was divided, all was going along fine and then WW 2 started. He enlisted and first served in the South African Military Intelligence and later he went to Cairo on behalf of the Red Cross.

Brian

I know the first three medals on the top row are WW 1 and depending what is on the cross, far left, top it is either the 1914 cross Mons Star or the 1914-15 star. The next two, look as though they are the same Medal to me, are they or is it just my imagination as the ribbon looks the same. What is the fouth Medal from the left on the top. The next is the Military Cross and the next one is the 1939 - 1945 War Medal.

The two large Medals in the second row, look to be the same Medal, Any idea as to what they are. I know he had a son who joined WW 2, RAF, an he went MIA over the Mediterranean. He rose to the rank of Squadron Leader.

The Natal Carbineers. I know the picture is not all that good for displaying the medal uniform pieces, but are they Natal Carbineers, I take it the cloth is?

Thanks in advance for all the information you have given me and any that is forthcoming.

Jack

[54Bty]

If you have these in your hands look on the back of the star and the edge of the full sized medals for the recipients Number Rank Initials Name and Unit. You can them put them into the correct groups.

Marc

[oc14]

Just enter his name in Google and see what comes back (his life story and the citation for the Military Cross). I would add links but being a bit of an IT biff I have no idea how to add links !

PL

[Brian Conyngham]

Originally Posted by geezer#199

Brian and GG Man

Thanks for your prompt reply and GG Man yes they will be kept together, I got quite a laugh as to your terminology as far as sucking eggs. I agree they should be properly mounted and displayed in a shadow box with appropriate pictures.

This is what I know about the person the Medals were awarded too. My sister in laws grandfather was Captain Hugh Merton Graham. He served in the first and second world war. He was born in Broadstairs, Kent and before WW 1 he was secretary to the British Ambassador in Budapest, Hungary. When the war started he joined the Naval Brigade ans was wounded in the Gallipolli campaign. He then transfered to the Army. He was an officer in the British Military Intelligence and made several trips behind the enemy lines on secret missions, making the journey on foot through Austria to Vienna. He was awarded the Military Cross and the Merito Di Guerro. After the armistice, he commnaded the first relief train sent into Vienna.

He moved to South Africa under a settlement scheme and in partneship with another individual bought an existing farm.

In 1938 he married and the farm was divided, all was going along fine and then WW 2 started. He enlisted and first served in the South African Military Intelligence and later he went to Cairo on behalf of the Red Cross.

Brian

I know the first three medals on the top row are WW 1 and depending what is on the cross, far left, top it is either the 1914 cross Mons Star or the 1914-15 star. The next two, look as though they are the same Medal to me, are they or is it just my imagination as the ribbon looks the same. What is the fouth Medal from the left on the top. The next is the Military Cross and the next one is the 1939 - 1945 War Medal.

The two large Medals in the second row, look to be the same Medal, Any idea as to what they are. I know he had a son who joined WW 2, RAF, an he went MIA over the Mediterranean. He rose to the rank of Squadron Leader.

The Natal Carbineers. I know the picture is not all that good for displaying the medal uniform pieces, but are they Natal Carbineers, I take it the cloth is?

Thanks in advance for all the information you have given me and any that is forthcoming.

Jack

Jack

The fourth medal is the South African African Service Medal for WW2, issued to most troops from this country except for a few. It has a leaping Springbuck (as seen in your picture) on one side and the map of Africa on the other. If his son served in WW2 in the Med as a SL then there are possbly a few missing medals, the ASM and War Medal could be his so then what you see in the picture could be 3 groups or at least 2 and some of the third group. Sadly they are all out of order, this happens when they were not mounted, nearly 90 years have passed since issue and few people know about these things theses days.

Badge at botton in Natal Carbineers and cloth epillettes could be "home made" for wear in the field?

Ask your sister in law to get the names and intials off all the medals, on back of Stars and around the rims of the dics, then you will be able to work out the groupings. Sometimes the MC's were also engraved with the chaps name and date of award, always nice to see this.

Good Luck, nice to keep family groups together.

Regards
Brian

[geezer#199]

Marc, PL, Andy GG Man and Brian

Thanks for all your help. I have got new photos from my sister in law, making things a lot clearer to see the detail and as a result the star is the 1914-15 star.

PL and Andy thanks for the link to the MID, I have sent that to her.

I wish I did have them in my hands and I would have them in order in their proper groupings. I was a little confused from the first picture as I initially thought that there were a couple of duplicate medals but with the poor quality of the picture and my failing eye sight, this is my excuse, I did not automatically twig to that fact. In talking via e-mail after my first post, she advises that her other grandfathers medals are there as well hence 2 victory medals and 2 British War Medals.

I have told her to look for the naming of the Medals and then they can be grouped accordingly.

From the attached photos, I am wondering if anyone could tell me about the gold coloured square badge with the crown in the centre. I am curious as to what the other badges are. Am I right in saying that the circular badge bottom row on the left is the Cap Badge of the 1st South Africa Infantry Brigade and next to it is a collar badge for the same group.

The other two silver badges in the centre bottom of the picture, what group do they belong too.

Again, thanks for all your help and anyone else out there that may be assisting me. Merry Christmas and I hope you all got a badge in your stocking, whether throughout the year or tomorrow.

Bye for now

Jack

[Mike_2817]

Originally Posted by geezer#199

Gentlemen

I just received the attached picture from my sister in law, who was born and raised in South Africa. She has since moved to Canada and was awarded Queen Elizabeth's Diamond Jubilee Medal.

What does she do for a living? as there is a cirtria for award of the QDJM

[geezer#199]

Mike

Yes there is criteria, I am not aware as to what it is in England but in Canada it was:

Be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada

Have made a significant contribution to a particular province, territory, region or community within Canada, or an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada.

Be alive on February 6th, 2012

I nominated her for the Medal. She has been a Canadian citizen since 2003 and she has embraced Canada since moving here. She has taken in children from our Northern Territories for a month during the summer to help them see what big city living is all about and the major contribution is that she has worked with the native community in the poorest community in Winnipeg, Manitoba. This is a community in Winnipeg that going into it during the day as a white person, you should be okay. At night if you are white, you should be in a group and have a weapon or you just might not come out alive. Organizing running groups on a weekly basis. She organized and just completed the first 5 and 10 K run in that community which will be a yearly event. She also runs Marathons around the world representing Canada, one of them being an Ultra Marathon, Comrades. in South Africa. She has done it back to back proudly wearing the red Maple Leaf of Canada.

Jack

[geezer#199]

Mike

Sorry I did not say what she did for a living, she is the head of a computer department for a major company in Winnipeg, Manitoba Hydro.

Jack

[davec2]

Brilliant Jack,

With the ever increasing number of scum-bags in the world, it's always refreshing to read of someone doing good for others, you must be proud of your association with her.

Dave.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by geezer#199

Mike

Yes there is criteria, I am not aware as to what it is in England but in Canada it was:

Be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada

Have made a significant contribution to a particular province, territory, region or community within Canada, or an achievement abroad that brings credit to Canada.

Be alive on February 6th, 2012

I nominated her for the Medal. She has been a Canadian citizen since 2003 and she has embraced Canada since moving here. She has taken in children from our Northern Territories for a month during the summer to help them see what big city living is all about and the major contribution is that she has worked with the native community in the poorest community in Winnipeg, Manitoba. This is a community in Winnipeg that going into it during the day as a white person, you should be okay. At night if you are white, you should be in a group and have a weapon or you just might not come out alive. Organizing running groups on a weekly basis. She organized and just completed the first 5 and 10 K run in that community which will be a yearly event. She also runs Marathons around the world representing Canada, one of them being an Ultra Marathon, Comrades. in South Africa. She has done it back to back proudly wearing the red Maple Leaf of Canada.

Jack

There have been some great choicesof people to receive the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal. Many of them, like your sister-in-law, are being recognized for their contributions to the community. It's a nice way to publicly thank people who make a difference.

Phil

[Mike_2817]

Philip, Thanks for that. I did mean to add 'in the UK'

The critera in the UK was much tighter and was awarded to those in the Armed Forces, Emergency Services, and Prison Service personnel with 5 years or more service.

The Canadion system sounds much fairer.

[Phillip Herring]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

Philip, Thanks for that. I did mean to add 'in the UK'

The critera in the UK was much tighter and was awarded to those in the Armed Forces, Emergency Services, and Prison Service personnel with 5 years or more service.

The Canadion system sounds much fairer.

It would be nice if Canadian military personnel received the medal under the same terms as UK military.

Phil