15TH CIVIL SERVICE - OK?

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi All, I had a member pass a judgement of copy on this one. I feel he may be right as the rear definition is not as good as I would imagine. I just wanted to pass over the team's judgment and then decide whether to ship it back.

Regards

Simon.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS

Hi All, I had a member pass a judgement of copy on this one. I feel he may be right as the rear definition is not as good as I would imagine. I just wanted to pass over the team's judgment and then decide whether to ship it back.

Regards

Simon.

It was me!

IMO it is an aged copy!

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=1308

Andy

[Sonofacqms]

Chaps, I don't generally comment on the authenticity of badges, especially blackened brass badges as to be honest, I can never really be certain of whether a blackened badge is original from a screen image.

This badge looks to me from the picture to be a bit worn on the high points with a slight "Ding" on the top feathers, the groove at the top of the slider is according to badge lore a good sign of an original badge.

I know fakers will go to excessive lengths to sell copies, but this one is very well aged.

Andy could you explain why you think this is a copy?

[2747andy]

I've coloured the features which are common to most faked POW plume badges.

A - The "Paper Christmas Party Hat" shaped area above the jewelled head band, which is almost always smooth.

B - The Crimp looks added to fool rather that a result of manufacture.

C - The slider looks modern and should have a more pointed taper as per the yellow shape.

D - The Font to the scrolls is staggered!

Just my opinion of course, but I feel this badge has been made to look older than it is! rolleyes:

Andy

[Leonard D]

Hi chaps, will also be interested in hearing further from Andy on this one. May have to take another butchers at the one in my collection. The crimp mark on the shoulder of the slider looks the part as does the score mark down the center of the "quills" on the plumes, or am I missing something here.
Cheers.
Len.

[Phil2M]

Heres another similar badge, I have replaced it now. The ageing is very good.

[Alan O]

Phil,

1. That second badge is a very common copy.

2, However before anyone writes off the first badge as wrong for a 1908-20 London Regt badge, please remember that Plymouth College OTC/JTC/CCF wore the same design. EJ Martin's article of 1938 confirms this and the badge may well have been worn for some years after that.

[Sonofacqms]

Andy, many thanks for your time in pointing out various aspects of this badge, there seems to be a difference between Simons badge and the one Phil put up.

The "Paper Christmas Party Hat" on Phil's badge has a pronounced distance between the shaped area above the jewelled head band, this also appears far more smooth than Simon's badge.

The crimp could well have been added and yes, maybe the slider is a modern one, although I have original WWI era badges where the sliders do not taper.

As for the lettering, it does appear to have been on a jolly, Phil's badge lettering is far more uniform, but from what he said it's a wrong one, so is Simon's badge a better copy than Phil's?

Rob

[Phil2M]

Peter J pointed out to me, that on my badge, the lettering is very pronounced, far more than it should be for a genuine badge. I am 100% sure that it is a repro, the one I have on the way is much better, from a reputable dealer. If I had to choose between Simon's and my old one, Simon's wins.

Originally Posted by Phil2M

Peter J pointed out to me, that on my badge, the lettering is very pronounced, far more than it should be for a genuine badge.

By which (as Phil is already aware) I was attempting to illustrate that a badge from the period would have a great deal more wear, particularly to the scroll and lettering.

In my opinion, Phil's badge (which I appreciate is not the subject of this thread) is lacking in many of the attributes one would normally expect to see on a 'genuine' example.

Regards to all,

Peter

[Alan O]

Phil's badge is the classic short 'dumpy' feather found on modern repros using the POW feathers in their design.

[LONGSHANKS]

Seem's I have a split decision.......

I think I'll keep it for now as it wasn't a lot of money. If another come's by looking a bit better; I'll replace it.

Simon.

[Alan O]

I would personally replace it at the earliest chance. There is always a hint of doubt with BB badges as they don't always get the aged patina of brass ones.

Alan

[LONGSHANKS]

Yeah, I will Alan. Tough one yto come across though. I'll keep looking

Regards
Simon.

[lew shotton]

This is my badge under discussion and what a load of drivel about it. Can the expert answer the following questions.
1 Was the badge produced on a fly press or a power press. The power press takes some time to set up 2 to 3 hours and used for high volume output. Will give you an even stamping every time.
2 The fly press used on smaller quantities much easier to set up half an hour it can produce variation in the stamping as your arm gets tired or your hand slips on the lever. How do I know I am en ex apprentice on the factory floor and then into the tool room.
3 Which die did it come from during the life of a badge several dies could have been produced.
4 Was the badge produced from a new die or an old die. An old die could produce a badge at varience from the first badge produced from that die, hence a new die to be made.
All these little things you point out could have been produced during the course of manufacture. I am not even talking about minor damage to a die and production contiues, hence all these so called varieties you experts like to talk about. THIS BADGE LOOKS GOOD FEELS GOOD AND IS GOOD AND CAME FROM A GOOD COLLECTION. Lew & Garry