Unknown GvR button

[GTB]

I wonder if anyone can jog my memory for me. I am wondering if attached button is Court or military, my notes mislaid, as usual. Button is frosted gilt,

GTB

[irishhorse]

I think Army Medical Service.

[Cribyn]

Originally Posted by irishhorse

I think Army Medical Service.

Yes, Army Medical Service.

Roger

[GTB]

Thanks both for feedback, but I'm a bit confused here.

Isn't the lineage of the RAMC thus:
Army Medical Dept
Army Medical Staff
Medical Staff Corps
RAMC (from 1898)
No mention of Army Medical Service. The RAMC button initially had a QVC

Furthermore, the Garter contains the Motto, as opposed to a title.

Am I missing something? Could it have anything to do with Military Police/Provost or a Staff Corps?

GTB

[Phil2M]

Is the Army Medical Service not British Indian Army? Shouldn't it have the GRI cypher?

[Cribyn]

Howard Ripley's book "Buttons of the Regular Army 1855-2000" illustrates and describes your button as "Army Medical Service, Gilt, GR V".

He also illustrates an earlier, similar button with the cypher of Edward VII within the garter but with the addition of a scroll below the garter reading "Army Medical Staff".

I know little about the history/lineage of the British Army's medical services but perhaps the "Army Medical Staff" and "Army Medical Service" were distinct units outside (or even inside!) the "Royal Army Medical Corps"?

Any medical experts about?

Roger

[GTB]

A bit confusing as Ripley seems to have mentioned 2 deviations from the documented Medical buttons lineage. He may be right, but I can't find my notes to corroborate.

To recap I am quoting from Westlake:
1873 - Army Medical Dept formed (officers only)
1884 - designated Army Medical Staff
1855 - Medical Staff Corps formed (ORs only)
1898 - AMS and MSC amalgamated to form RAMC

Curiously Dress Regs 1900 mention both Army Medical Staff and RAMC, evidently officers, albeit the amalgamation 2 years before!! Nevertheless AMS buttons have a title in the Garter and not the Motto.

[GTB]

Further to the above, would a silver Medical Staff officer's button be Militia Medical Staff?

GTB

[Cribyn]

Hello GTB

I may be wrong but I have always associated silver variants of these and other buttons with the volunteers rather than the militia.

Roger

[GTB]

Could be. I based my comment on the strength of the cap badge of the Melitia Medical Staff Corps being silver/wm
(unless there is a colour shift!). Vide link
https://www.quarterdeckmilitaria.com...l-staff-corps/

GTB

[Cribyn]

Hello GTB

It could just be a colour shift as the collar badge in the link seems to be gilt on my computer!

I have a Royal Engineers (Militia) button (somewhere, if I could only find it!) that I'm positive is gilt whereas the Volunteer Engineers buttons are usually silver/white metal.

Always room for variations/errors though, so never say never!

Roger

[Milmed]

Originally Posted by GTB

Could be. I based my comment on the strength of the cap badge of the Melitia Medical Staff Corps being silver/wm
(unless there is a colour shift!). Vide link
https://www.quarterdeckmilitaria.com...l-staff-corps/

GTB

You will find that this Militia MSC is in fact GM and not WM. The example for sale has been polished and the reflection of the flash is making it appear to be silver/white metal.

Militia MSC insignia always GM.
Volunteer MSC insignia always WM

[GTB]

Thanks, gents, for your feedback.
I must have confused Militia with Volunteers. I'm doing a hundred things at once and the overdrive is getting to me.

GTB