Titles

[Terry Rayner]

Hello Troops
After some help/advice please.
What was issued first, printed or embroidered shoulder titles?
If someone can give can give dates of the above, that would be great.
For the Essex, Lincoln, Northampton, Suffolk, Norfolk, Cambridge and Leicester Regts. [big ask]
Thanks in advance
Terry

[Sonofacqms]

Terry, having looked at a book called "Battalion at war" which is about the first Btn Cambridgeshire Regt at Singapore a variety of insignia is worn on both service dress and battle dress, as to when the photographs were taken it is difficult to say, but printed "Cambridgeshires" are visible on battle dress jackets.

18th Division formation signs were worn on service dress with collar badges and also khaki slip-on titles were worn on battle dress, as the Division sailed to Singapore in October 1941 it is possible printed titles may have been issued before 1943 which I think is the accepted date of issue.

Sadly all the old Cambs men are long gone, so Knowone to ask although I still have one of my Father-in laws printed titles which he said was issued before going abroad.

Rob

[badjez]

The first use of embroidered titles was 1902, but they didn't last long.

Slip-on titles and embroidered regimental titles reappeared from 1916 until about 1919 (although some TA units still wore them post-war.

Slip-on titles reappeared again with battledress in 1939, being supplemented by some unofficial items.

From 1940/41 coloured Arm-of-Service strips supposedly replaced titles and added to the secrecy of unit dispositions.

It was not until June 1943 that cloth shoulder titles officially made an appearance, these being the printed versions. Official embroidered titles did not reappear until post-war, and lasted for as long as battledress continued in wear.

Of course there were always exceptions to every rule- the Foot Guards, Army Physical Training Corps were official users of cloth titles. Some regiments, including the Norfolks, adopted titles in alternative colours, and within a regiment yet again different items were worn.

It is worth noting that the printed Cambridgeshire was not sealed until June 1943, so would not have been worn by the two battalions of the regiment captured in Singapore.

Stephen.

[Mike Jackson]

On the subject of the proliferation of unofficial shoulder titles (most of which were, in my opinion, very attractive) here is an extract from the War Diaries 1939-1945 by FM Lord Alanbrooke, dated 11 Dec 42: "After the meeting he (PM Winston Churchill) called me up to discuss the rescinding of one of our Army Council Instructions connected with shoulder badges. He has been behaving like a child in this connection and has been wasting a lot of our time." A couple of examples. Mike
Buffs_5Bn East Kent.RlC.jpgGloucester 70 Bn title.01.jpg

[Postwarden]

Stephen has provided a nice clear explanation although as he says there were numerous exceptions.

The Buffs title illustrated by Mike came about - along with several other unofficial examples - after a Middle East General Order of November 1944 permitted the use of cloth regimental designations - the official term at the time for cloth arm titles - which at that time were not available from official sources in Italy. Many regiments in Italy then adopted designations in colours of their own choosing including the 16th/5th Lancers and the 17th/21st Lancers, the latter title still worn in Britain in 1947.

There was also quite widespread use of cloth designations by the TA between the wars.

The attached images may be of interest.

Jon

[Sonofacqms]

I find it's always difficult to talk with a veteran about who wore what in the way of insignia, time takes it's toll on the memory and certainly those FEPOW'S that survived were glad to get home.

From what I was told they came home via various routes and I don't know whether they were completely kitted out with uniforms with all the insignia or just plain KD, so where my printed Cambridgeshire came from I don't know, the only Cambridgeshires apart from maybe a few at the depot were I think Home Guard and designated as such.

As far as I know my Father in law never served after arriving home.

Rob

[John Mulcahy]

What I see in my research on the Royal Munster Fusiliers is that as early as 1885 cloth shoulder titles, called patches in the records, scarlet worsted lettering on cotton khaki drill backgrounds, were sealed for several regiments for the Khaki Drill Frock. (1)

The use of cloth titles became more universal when Army Order (AO) 10 of 1902 introduced cloth shoulder titles to be worn on the upper part of the sleeve of the recently introduced Service Dress jacket.

The first cloth title for service dress were embroidered and appear to be sealed c. 1901 (before AO10/1902). As an example the title for the Munsters was SPN 5416/1901, sealed on Sept. 24, 1901; this is described as, “title embroidered worstered, white on cloth scarlet no 3, for jackets & great coats service dress all ranks, first pattern “RMF". (2)

Very quickly thereafter a change came in the sealed patterns, renewals for machine embroidered titles. In the case of the Munsters the new pattern was sealed on Jan. 28, 1902. The entry in the RACD ledger is given as, “machine embroidered cotton white on cloth scarlet no 3 for jackets & great coats service dress Infantry ""RMF”" (3)

For the Munsters the SPN for the machine embroidered version was 5416/1902. It is noted as replacing SPN 5416/1901, which I assume was a hand embroidered item.

Pattern 5416 cost 2½d in March 1903. (4) Each battalion wore a cloth battalion numeral below the title in the same colours.

These titles were short-lived, as ACD/India/1654 dated Apr. 18, 1905, relates, “it was approved to abolish the embroidered titles on the sleeves of the great coats and service dress jackets substituting them for metal as a cost saving measure. It is now proposed to extend this to tunics and full dress frocks abroad”.

As Stephen mentions cloth titles (slip ons) reappear in 1916 as a temporary economy measure.

The data above is generally true for Infantry , Cavalry and Services. I may have sealing details for the regiments you mention, if I do I will send them on.

John

1. U.K., The National Archives, ACD Record of Changes, Catalogue reference W.O. 359, vol. 4, 247.
2. ibid vol. 11, 108, Authority ACD Patterns 369 24/9/1901.
3. ibid vol. 12. 9, authority ACD Patterns 507, 2101/2536
4. U.K, The War Office, Priced Vocabulary of Clothing and Necessaries (London, HMSO March 1903), 7-8.
5. U.K., The National Archives, ACD Record of Changes, Catalogue reference W.O. 359 vol. 14, 2.

[Terry Rayner]

Thanks every one. A great response to my question.
I do appreciate the time members take to help.
Regards Terry