Royal Dragoons early WWII cap badge

[WWIIBuff]

Can anyone post pictures of the cap badge the Royal Dragoons would have worn in North Africa on their grey berets during the early part of WWII?

Thank you in advance.

John

[rac1944]

Hi John,
The RD adopted the grey beret during their conversion to armoured cars in late 1940. The CO also instructed that they re-adopt the eagle as their cap (beret) badge. Up to the winter of 1940/41 they wore the crest and scroll, then the eagle (right face) on their new grey berets, then back in the UK in early 1944 they were ordered to revert to the crest and scroll and also to adopt the black beret. My friend's father joined the RD in North Africa in 1943 and was issued with a grey beret and right face eagle collar to wear on it. Photos of him back in the UK show the black beret and crest/scroll badge and later in Germany just after the war show him still wearing the black beret and crest/scroll. Officers tried to maintain the grey beret once in France 1944 but officers will be seen wearing black berets later in the war, replacements would likely have come in with black berets and stocks of grey would have been limited to replace them later on in the war.
To summarise for other ranks: 1939 - winter 1940/41 crest/scroll badge; 1941 - 1944 right face eagle in grey beret; 1944 - 1945 crest/scroll badge in black beret. (Note there are photos of left face collars being worn.)
John

[GriffMJ]

In Egypt before the beret... (2039433 Trooper Frederick Herbert HUNT)


In North Africa...


1RD in North West Europe c1944 (Note the Blue Berets with no Red backing patch for the badge).


Wars End Grey backing.


1RD Officer in North West Europe c1945. :- Grey beret with Gilt/Silver Small eagle.

[WWIIBuff]

Once again you have posted some great reference pictures Griff, thank you very much.

John thank you for the breakdown of specific dates, that is very helpful.

I am preparing a mannequin display with a 1941 dated Royal Dragoons KD uniform I recently added to my collection, so knowing the dates will help me to display the correct cap badge (if I ever find a grey beret).

[GriffMJ]

That 1RD Corporal must have done some time...... just to stay a Corporal? Either that or those WW1 ribbons are bogus.... is "1941" printed in the label?

That jacket had shoulder chains as well......

[Jimbo66]

Hi John,

In March, 1944, just before the Royals moved to France to join the invading Allied Forces, another attempt was made to gain official sanction for the grey beret, which by then had been worn in action for three eventful years, and was also well known throughout the Army. Since the Regiment had arrived in England in January 1944, the supply of the grey berets had become difficult, and only a few still remained to be proudly worn by their owners. The remainder of the Royals had then to wear black berets. General Sir B. Montgomery on this occasion came to the assistance of the Royals and personally wrote to the Adjutant-General on the matter, requesting official recognition of the grey beret. However, the reply of General Sir R. Adam was to the effect that many other regiments had also applied for similar recognition and that it could not be granted. The black beret, with the regimental badge, was therefore now the officially correct dress for the Royals.

The backing on the Royal Crest cap badge worn on the black beret, seen in several photos, was in fact a grey backing. An example was given to me some years ago by a wartime Royal Dragoon.

Jim ex-Royals

[GriffMJ]

Thanks Jim..... thats a correction I like to get

I would imagine that those patches were made up from the old berets and distributed amongst the regiment in 1945?

[Jimbo66]

Hi,

I was informed that the grey cloth backing was in fact taken from old army blankets and not from bits of the Royals grey berets. On inspection of the cap badge backing illustrated and a genuine Royals grey beret, the materials are certainly different. Regards, Jim

[GriffMJ]

Jim

Do you have an image of the original grey beret?

[WWIIBuff]

Originally Posted by Jimbo66

Hi,

I was informed that the grey cloth backing was in fact taken from old army blankets and not from bits of the Royals grey berets. On inspection of the cap badge backing illustrated and a genuine Royals grey beret, the materials are certainly different. Regards, Jim

Thanks Jim. Please post pictures of the beret here for us.

[Jimbo66]

Royal Dragoons Grey Beret as requested. Jim

[GriffMJ]

Thank you Jim

[WWIIBuff]

Thank you very much for posting your grey beret Jim, that is a nice example of beret and badge.

From what I read in the Brian Davis Uniform & Insignia book, these were originally made by a tailor in Cairo. So rather than the machine-made berets like Kangol, I assume this is of 2-piece construction?

[rac1944]

Originally Posted by Jimbo66

Hi John,

In March, 1944, just before the Royals moved to France to join the invading Allied Forces, another attempt was made to gain official sanction for the grey beret, which by then had been worn in action for three eventful years, and was also well known throughout the Army. Since the Regiment had arrived in England in January 1944, the supply of the grey berets had become difficult, and only a few still remained to be proudly worn by their owners. The remainder of the Royals had then to wear black berets. General Sir B. Montgomery on this occasion came to the assistance of the Royals and personally wrote to the Adjutant-General on the matter, requesting official recognition of the grey beret. However, the reply of General Sir R. Adam was to the effect that many other regiments had also applied for similar recognition and that it could not be granted. The black beret, with the regimental badge, was therefore now the officially correct dress for the Royals.

Jim ex-Royals

This has reminded me of my own puzzle as to which badge the officers wore in the UK Jan - June 1944 when they also had to adopt the black beret as you mention here. Did the officers continue to wear their gilt eagles? If not which badge did they change to? And which badge did the officers wear on their KD caps in 1940 when the ORs had the crest/scroll? Many thanks.
John

[Jimbo66]

Until the grey beret was officially sanctioned the Royals had to pay for it themselves, and the cost of the initial issue was borne by the Regimental Funds, and were made locally in North Africa at a cost of £800, hoping that this cost would later be refunded. Later, however, when replacements were required, and the necessary sanction had still not arrived, members of the Regiment had to pay for their own. In almost every case, however, they were all proud to do this.

The photo was taken late in the war and shows two officers wearing different berets. There may be some photos in the albums at the Regimental Museum in Windsor wearing SD caps but I will have to check on my next visit but I suspect they would be wearing the small bronze eagle cap badge.