Shoulder titles 1905

[Graham Stewart]

A belated Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all our members and I just though I'd attach the following Army Order 166 from August 1905 for our shoulder title buffs from my latest edition of Army Orders, which Santa brought yesterday. Please enjoy.

AO 166 - Aug 1905a.jpgAO 166 - Aug 1905b.jpgAO 166 - Aug 1905c.jpgAO 166 - Aug 1905d.jpg

[Alan O]

Graham

Ty for taking the time to share that information. It's very useful.

Alan

[Drew]

That's superb. Very kind of you to share.

Many thanks,

Chris

[Tiger Pete]

Hi Graham,

Thank you for sharing this.

Do you know what the paragraphs that were replaced detailed; was it embroidered titles on shoulder straps?

Kind Regards,

Pete.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Tiger Pete

Hi Graham,

Thank you for sharing this.

Do you know what the paragraphs that were replaced detailed; was it embroidered titles on shoulder straps?

Kind Regards,

Pete.

Hi Pete - In 1901 a new "Provisional" edition of Regulations for the Volunteer Force was produced which included references to badges. However my Army Orders don't relate to the paragraphs therein, as I've checked with my copy.

This because a futher edition of "Regulations for the Volunteer Force - 1901" was reproduced, which was "reprinted for provisional use with Corrections & Amendments up to the 31st July 1904". This is perhaps one of the rarest copies of VR's and luckily I own one and so will produce the whole badge section for you lads.

[Graham Stewart]

1901 - a.jpg1901 - b.jpg1901 - c.jpg1901 - d.jpg
1901 - e.jpg1901 - f.jpg
1901 - g.jpg
From this edition you will be able to see which paragraphs that Army Order 166 replaced.

Sorry pages 96/97 have produced in reverse order.

[Tiger Pete]

Thank you Graham,

That's incredibly kind! I shall have a read now with much interest.

Kind Regards,

Pete.

[Tiger Pete]

Hi Graham et al. ,

That was an interesting read and clarified some points for me: if I understand correctly, an infantry VB wearing scarlet would have blue lettering and white edging on scarlet epaulettes and white lettering on shoulder titles worn on the sleeve. The blue lettering had confused me versus white for regulars (see attached photos).

It prompted me to check my shelves and rediscover that I had a copy of the VR for 1881.

I've attached some scans which may or may not be of interest. If nothing else, it shows the progression of these to 1901. I have the whole reprint if more info is required.

Kind Regards,

Pete.

[Drew]

Many thanks to you both. Invaluable information. Very nicely illustrated with the photos, Pete.

Chris

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Tiger Pete

Hi Graham et al. ,

That was an interesting read and clarified some points for me: if I understand correctly, an infantry VB wearing scarlet would have blue lettering and white edging on scarlet epaulettes and white lettering on shoulder titles worn on the sleeve. The blue lettering had confused me versus white for regulars (see attached photos).

It prompted me to check my shelves and rediscover that I had a copy of the VR for 1881.

I've attached some scans which may or may not be of interest. If nothing else, it shows the progression of these to 1901. I have the whole reprint if more info is required.

Kind Regards,

Pete.

Hi Pete - I have this copy in my collection and my earliest editon - 1863 - makes no mention of uniform marking, but it does mention the "mode for marking arms", as noted in the 1881 edition.

The first mention I have regarding badges/titles etc comes in my 1878 edition, again it's noted as "Section 20 - Clothing, Accoutements and Horse Furniture" and is illustrated as well as having the Table of County initials, which were also used when marking arms.

By the 1892 and 1897 editions "Clothing" is well covered, with "Badges" getting its own section.

Ironically all of these illustrations disappear in the 1908, 1910, 1912. copies of Regulations for the Territorial Force, which is basically covered under - "Section 9 - Uniform, Equipment, Decorations & Medals, &c". However an Appendix appears in both the 1910/1912 editions showing "The designs for metal titles to be worn on shoulder straps".

TF - 1910.jpg

[Tiger Pete]

Hi Graham,

This solves a mystery for me, in that Westlake mentions WM 1 VB & 2 VB Royal Sussex STs but doesn't show examples and I've never seen any- even in the museum (where I took the photos in my previous post).

If they're mentioned for the first time in 1905 and the TF came into being in 1908, if they were ever produced in this three years, they'd be fairly scarce.

I wonder if anyone has ever seen examples?

Kind Regards,

Pete.

[Longdog]

Hello Graham,

Thank you for the posts sharing this information.
It is really useful and helps build reference sources no end, much appreciated.


Hello Pete,
Thank you also for posting and sharing the VR information.
Hope these pictures of a 1 / V / Royal Sussex are what you wanted to see and are of some interest.

Best wishes,

Pat

[Tiger Pete]

Hi Pat,

Thank you for sharing these images- I really appreciate it; as I said, I've never actally seen these.

I'll now need to find some!

Kind Regards,

Pete.