1894 Gloucestershire regiment 4th militia Bn question..

[RWest]

Dear all,

Does anyone have any idea what other ranks cap badge would have been worn in 1894 by the Gloucestershire regiment 4th Militia Battalion? Were they still wearing the glengarry or had they moved on to the new field service cap by then?

Very sorry if this query is a bit obscure....

Robin

[Toby Purcell]

The field service cap (aka side hat) was introduced (phased in) in 1894 and regiments were initially ordered to wear a single collar badge (facing same way as other badges). In 1898 the purpose designed badges were introduced. Initially with a QVC these became more famous during WW1, when apart from the crown most designs (but not all) remained the same.

[RWest]

Many thanks toby.. do you know how to distinguish between a Victorian collar badge and a later one? I going to try and find one from the right era.
Should I be looking for a left facing sphinx in nickel with two brass lugs?
Robin

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RWest

Many thanks toby.. do you know how to distinguish between a Victorian collar badge and a later one? I going to try and find one from the right era.
Should I be looking for a left facing sphinx in nickel with two brass lugs?
Robin

Yes, the dies were largely the same other than when the crown changed. A key indicator for earlier badges is brass lugs/loops. A very few regiments adopted their own unique little badges rather than collars. Most were cavalry but a very small number were infantry. The Glosters wore the regulation collar badge, facing left, as ordered.

[RWest]

Very much obliged Toby. I'll keep my open for one..
Robin

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by RWest

Very much obliged Toby. I'll keep my open for one..
Robin

One thing I inadvertently omitted to add is that the Militia had the lowest priority for new patterns of public funded kit and equipment and so in 1894 4th Glosters are much more likely to have been still wearing the glengarry and its appropriate badge. Apologies for any inconvenience if this has put a spanner in the works.

[KLR]

A very minor point but the 'the purpose designed [cap] badges were introduced' between 1896 and 1898. The regular Gloucs Regt badge was one of the earlier issues - in 1896 (I have the exact date of authorisation somewhere) - as WO Pattern 4423/1896. The Volunteer and Militia Battalions sourced their own insignia and copied (the design at least) from the regular badges and did not have WO generated Pattern Numbers.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by KLR

A very minor point but the 'the purpose designed [cap] badges were introduced' between 1896 and 1898. The regular Gloucs Regt badge was one of the earlier issues - in 1896 (I have the exact date of authorisation somewhere) - as WO Pattern 4423/1896. The Volunteer and Militia Battalions sourced their own insignia and copied (the design at least) from the regular badges and did not have WO generated Pattern Numbers.

Julian

it is my understanding, from records and publications, that the militia had their uniforms and insignia issued at Public Expense by the RACD (some corps at reduced scale such as typically no full dress headdress for Fusilier Militia Battalions on cost saving grounds and often using-up older, patterns before receiving issue of newer ones).

Clothing patterns were essentially the same as the regular battalions, a small number of badges differed (omission of battle honours etc.) The research I see has the militia using the WO generated Pattern Numbers.

On volunteer battalions you are correct.


John

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by KLR

A very minor point but the 'the purpose designed [cap] badges were introduced' between 1896 and 1898. The regular Gloucs Regt badge was one of the earlier issues - in 1896 (I have the exact date of authorisation somewhere) - as WO Pattern 4423/1896. The Volunteer and Militia Battalions sourced their own insignia and copied (the design at least) from the regular badges and did not have WO generated Pattern Numbers.

Thank you Julian, I do recall now that some early badges were introduced in 1896. It’s interesting to learn that the Gloucestershire Regiment was one of them.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Julian

it is my understanding, from records and publications, that the militia had their uniforms and insignia issued at Public Expense by the RACD (some corps at reduced scale such as typically no full dress headdress for Fusilier Militia Battalions on cost saving grounds and often using-up older, patterns before receiving issue of newer ones).

Clothing patterns were essentially the same as the regular battalions, a small number of badges differed (omission of battle honours etc.) The research I see has the militia using the WO generated Pattern Numbers.

On volunteer battalions you are correct.


John

That is all my understanding too John. Thank you for posting those useful details.

[KLR]

Whoops, yes you're right - I was too much fixated on VBs !
I think my basic minor point was that the various 'non regular' battalions would have taken their "cap badge" designs from the 'new' regular one.