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  #1  
Old 29-03-17, 12:36 PM
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Default SA Naval ForcesLieut Should board insignia

Never seen this before, so thought I would ask- seen these SA Navy shoulder boards on a site recently - I have never seen coloured cloth behind the buttons in the past - what does this signify?

I know Medical Officers (Doctors, Surgeons) had red cloth between the gold lace, could this be a variant ?

Thanks,
Bryan


Last edited by RCN; 30-04-17 at 05:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 29-03-17, 01:37 PM
navyfred navyfred is offline
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Bryan,

The orange cloth denotes that they were South African. I have seen many variations of the shade of orange so would suggest that they are both just SAN.

Regards fred
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Old 29-03-17, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navyfred View Post
The orange cloth denotes that they were South African. I have seen many variations of the shade of orange so would suggest that they are both just SAN.
Agree. The orange triangles were the naval equivalent of the orange strips which the army and air force wore across the other end of the shoulder strap. On the jacket, the orange flash was worn as a square, balanced on one point like a diamond, above the rank lace.

The orange flash was more than just an indicator of nationality. It meant that the wearer had attested for service "anywhere in Africa" (1940-43) or "anywhere in the world" (1943-45). As the Union Defence Forces were restricted by law to operating in southern Africa, this voluntary attestation was the only way in which its personnel and units could be deployed farther afield.
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Old 29-03-17, 06:00 PM
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THANKS Fred & Arthur,

I did not know about the orange triangles being worn by the SA Forces, but I do have to admit that my knowledge of the SA Navy is not very good, but its good to learn something new!

I did note on the two shoulder boards, one button has SA on either side of the anchor but the other has no lettering. & on the second pair no lettering on either button.
Any reason for this?

Bryan
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  #5  
Old 29-03-17, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RCN View Post
I did note on the two shoulder boards, one button has SA on either side of the anchor but the other has no lettering. & on the second pair no lettering on either button.
Any reason for this?
The official button from 1939 to 1942 was the crowned anchor. The letters SA were added in 1942, around the time that the Seaward Defence Force was renamed 'SA Naval Forces'. Perhaps the officer originally had the pre-1942 button on both, and later had to replace one of them.
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Old 30-03-17, 05:45 AM
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Nice shoulder straps, not that common and used from 1940-1950. Buttons for the SANF and its predecessors were in short supply and it's doubtful whether many of them were even used during the war, although they were sealed, I believe. Standard RN buttons were often just used as an alternate.
Cheers,
Alex
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Old 02-04-17, 01:48 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Of course the Royal Navy's South Atlantic Fleet was stationed at Simonstown until c.1957. The South Atlantic Station was commanded by a Rear-Adm, RN while the SANF was commanded by a Captain (SANF), later upgraded to a Commodore 2nd Class. Many members of the SANF had previously served in the RNVR (SA Division) so not out of place to find RN buttons on the shoulder straps.
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Old 02-04-17, 02:11 PM
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Thanks for the responses mates. They have improved my knowledge of the SANF!

The same situation concerning buttons occurred in the RCN & RCNVR during that 2WW period. Many officers took courses given by the RN in the Uk & wore the RN buttons as well. During the Great war & between the wars periods the RCN wore RN buttons.
Canada did not appear on Officers or CPO/PO buttons in the RCN until early in 2WW.

Bryan
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Old 04-04-17, 12:01 PM
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Default SANF Buttons

Here are two SA KC buttons if anyone might be interested:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/201878967968?...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Bryan
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  #10  
Old 05-04-17, 09:00 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Default SANF Petty Officers wearing red diamonds

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205158510
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Old 05-04-17, 09:08 AM
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Default SANF Officers with red diamonds

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205158513
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Old 05-04-17, 11:38 AM
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Thanks for posting the photos!

I notice the two PO's are wearing shoulder titles(however the Officers are not), do they indicate SOUTH AFRICA?
similar to those worn by Canada, New Zealand, Australia.


Bryan
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Old 05-04-17, 05:22 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCN View Post
Thanks for posting the photos!

I notice the two PO's are wearing shoulder titles(however the Officers are not), do they indicate SOUTH AFRICA?
similar to those worn by Canada, New Zealand, Australia.


Bryan
Yes, as you say.
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  #14  
Old 29-04-17, 03:18 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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First ones from my own collection. The last one possibly photographed at the War Museum in Jhb a long time ago.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Px 035.JPG (80.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg SA Naval Forces officers buttons WW2.jpg (53.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg SANF Cuff detail red siamond.JPG (62.5 KB, 11 views)
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  #15  
Old 29-04-17, 12:46 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milhistry View Post
Interesting to see the officers with the wartime 'austerity' stripes, in other words, to save on gold-lace, the stripes didn't go all round the cuff, just a half ring.
Cheers,
Alex
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