West Yorks Rifle Volunteers - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

badger123 · #1 17-10-12, 06:37 PM

Can anyone help me with this query please?

I know the badge with the crown is the 3rd West Yorks Rifle Volunteers FSC badge but what is the badge without a crown?

Is it the same regiment and if so, what is the significance of having no crown?

many thanks, Ivan

Peter Brydon · #2 17-10-12, 06:54 PM

The problem is that Rifles Volunteers of Lancashire,Yorkshire and Hampshire ( and possibly other counties as well ) used the rose in white metal rose as part of their insignia and so unless you acquire a complete piece of headdress or complete pouch belt with pouch it is almost impossible to say that a piece of insignia was definatley for a particular unit.

P.B.

badger123 · #3 17-10-12, 07:39 PM

Thanks Peter, I appreciate these things can be a minefield.

KK have the first badge as 3rd West Yorks Light Infantry Militia forage cap 1853-73 (KK 1255).

The second badge seems so similar I just wondered if anyone had seen this before.

Cheers, Ivan

Deejayuu · #4 17-10-12, 11:10 PM

Cannot find a knotted bugle with wm rose as a cap badge anywhere but i have found this arrangement on an officers waist belt plate. West York Rifle Volunteers by Dixon Pickup, image 51. 3rd Admin bn, Yorkshire, West Riding, RVC. Might be worth a line to the museum? Nice badge, if you ever get tired with it let me know. I have 1 or 2 badges that it wouldfit in well with!

Cheers, Dave

badger123 · #5 18-10-12, 07:18 AM

I see what you mean Dave, thanks.

For those that don't have a copy of Pickup's book, it appears to be similar to the centrepiece of a pouch belt plate to the 3rd Admin Battalion West Riding Rifle Vol Corp.

The text suggests that the white rose and bugle are 'pinned' onto the backplate which would fit in with my particular badge as it is indeed pinned on the back.

Ivan

Peter Brydon · #6 18-10-12, 12:45 PM

The rose within a bugle horn ( although in blackened brass rather than white metal ) was used by the predecessors to the Liverpool Rifles amongst others. I hope it can be seen in the attached photo.

Hugh King had a lot of rifle type badges some of which he was able eventually to identify but I belive he had others that he was never able to put to a particular unit.

P.B.

badger123 · #7 18-10-12, 01:26 PM

Thanks Peter.

Can anyone point to a good reference source that may shed some light on the issue?

Thanks, Ivan

Neil Pearce · #8 18-10-12, 01:47 PM

Hi Ivan

The crowned badge is in Capt Raikes book "Historical Records of the First regiment of Militia or 3rd West York Light Infantry.Page 235 and described as "old Forage Cap plate for rank and file, 1853-73

I have an identical badge without the crown, and would love to know what it is

If you drop me a PM, I can scan the plate, if needed..

Cheers, Neil

badger123 · #9 18-10-12, 02:55 PM

Neil,

Thank you for that, pm on its way.

Ivan

yorkie · #10 18-10-12, 04:25 PM

I do have the same badge as your first item ie 3rd West Yorks Rifle Volunteers.
I also have an identicle badge on a Cross Belt Plate/Badge obviously with stud type fixings, I only bought the cross belt and pouch for the badges as the leather parts were/are not in very good condition. The pouch badge is a little like your second item but without the rose in the centre.
The dealer told me it was 3rd West Yorks Rifle Volunteers and I do believe myself that is the correct id. I thought you might like to compare them.

badger123 · #11 18-10-12, 04:42 PM

Yorkie,

I would say that the first badge is definitely 3rd West Yorks Rifle Volunteers and is the same as my first badge (except that mine has lugs and yours has screw fittings).

Its my second badge that’s causing the head scratching but on the face of it, it looks to be Yorks Rifle Volunteers.

Here’s the back of mine showing the lugs.

Ivan

#12 18-10-12, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger123

Yorkie,

I would say that the first badge is definitely 3rd West Yorks Rifle Volunteers and is the same as my first badge (except that mine has lugs and yours has screw fittings).

Its my second badge that’s causing the head scratching but on the face of it, it looks to be Yorks Rifle Volunteers.

Here’s the back of mine showing the lugs.

Ivan

Ivan/Andy,

I have a 3WYRV badge (on lugs) like yours, I also have an example without the crown (with the rose in the centre) as you have shown, so I'm hoping you get an answer as to what it is. I personally don't think it's Yorkshire related, but would love to be proved wrong.

Cheers,

Marcus

badger123 · #13 18-10-12, 08:53 PM

Interesting you think its not Yorks related Marcus, what makes you think that?

I can't say for sure the other than its seems to be the same badge as the 3rd WYRV but without a crown.

The closest I have seen is the badge highlighted by Dave in post #4 and perhaps is a part of a 3 part pouch belt plate?

Ivan

badger123 · #14 19-10-12, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Pearce

Hi Ivan

The crowned badge is in Capt Raikes book "Historical Records of the First regiment of Militia or 3rd West York Light Infantry.Page 235 and described as "old Forage Cap plate for rank and file, 1853-73

I have an identical badge without the crown, and would love to know what it is

If you drop me a PM, I can scan the plate, if needed..

Cheers, Neil

Neil,

Thanks for the scan, one of the badges in the plate looked familiar and I remembered that I have a picture of the officers 'chaco' plate so here it is for future reference.

(it’s not mine but I wish it was)!

Ivan