Help needed to ID an early Vol ? Artillery BADGE

[arrestingu]

...think Volunteer Artillery badge ...can anyone positively ID this please ..its pretty large and silver plated ....
thanks
Steve

[arrestingu]

...no ideas folks ???

[Rob Miller]

Hi Steve

If the central wheel part is the same size as on the later Royal Artillery moving wheel gun badge I would guess its a "fantasy" piece?

Rob

[tonyb]

Originally Posted by Rob Miller

Hi Steve

If the central wheel part is the same size as on the later Royal Artillery moving wheel gun badge I would guess its a "fantasy" piece?

Rob

My thoughts too Rob, though just my opion.
Cheers Tony.

[grenadierguardsman]

I cant find it in K & K.

[ebro]

Is it British?
Eddie

[norfolk regt man]

Maybe NAA badge, which was formed in about 1865, some of there badges have wheel over heavy gun barrels.

[arrestingu]

Hi,
no wheels smaller,so don't believe a fantasy badge ..
.badge is period not a copy.. canons are pinned onto main body of badge..patina consistant...lovely quality ...but still stuck on what regiment it is !! other than artillery busby badge / shako
steve

[Silver Tourist]

Good morning.

Not really my specialist area, but if you think this is a fantasy item then by all means pop it in the post to me.

On the other hand, and because I am feeling bored, I decided to review the books on the Volunteer and Militia Artillery published by my old friend Norman Litchfield.

The item is clearly a busby plume holder. If it is silver plated it is probably an officer's example. The mounted devices would tend to reinforce that possibility. Litchfield illustrates examples of the general patterns for both Officers and for Other Ranks in each of his publications.

The mounted device of crossed cannon is illustrated by Litchfield on numerous shako plates, grenades and pouch badges to both Militia and Volunteer units, and I would refer you to both Volumes.

However, and this is where it gets interesting, only one unit used a device of a wheel, mounted upon crossed cannon: The 1st. Corps Yorkshire (East Riding) Artillery Volunteers. In Norman's words: "Formed at Burlington (an alternative name for Bridlington) on the 9th December, 1859. In 1869 the 1st Corps disappeared from the Army List but instead a 6th Corps appears to have taken its place. Headquarters of the 6th were also at Burlington and one of its officers was previously listed with the 1st Corps."

Norman collected to the Artillery for much of his life and I knew his Collection very well. I also have a copy of the Catalogues of the dispersal Sales following his death, and the item does not appear in those. It is not illustrated in his volume on the Volunteer Artillery, but on Pg.178 is shown a line drawing of a waist belt clasp worn by the 1st Corps in 1860, which incorporates, below a separate crown, a wheel mounted upon crossed cannon with muzzels pointing upwards, all above a separate scroll reading Burlington. There is also an illustration of an enrolment medal, dated 1859, bearing the same device. (See Dix Noonan Webb's Sale 29 June 2006 for the first half of Norman's Collection, Lot 1330 et seq. Lot 1479 is an example of the officer's bullion forage cap badge to the unit, although this does not feature the wheel device. It is the example from his book.)

If you check the Army Lists for the period you will be able to identify the officers of the Corps. As 1st Corps probably never exceeded 80-100 men, there were probably no more than four or six officers throughout the whole life of the Corps. Certainly that would reflect my own research into other Corps. However, you can investigate that easily.

So, a fantasy item? I very much doubt it. I would suggest you have an exceptionally rare and very desirable item of considerable value. Based on the values raised in the Sale in 2006, add commission etc, and allow for inflation, I would not part with that item (assuming my identification is correct) for less than £380-420.

If I am correct, wonderful find and you are exceptionally fortunate.

As I always say, aren't books wonderful. Shame more people don't buy them and read them before speculating. (Lights blue touch paper and retires!)

Enjoy.

S.T

[peter monahan]

There he goes with his 'books' again!

Well spotted, sir! My hat is off to you.

Peter
[secret book addict]

[arrestingu]

Many thanks ST for your obvious hard and exceptionally kind effort and work on this and all you guys !! I was pleased to aquire this gem so plan to enjoy it for a bit !! many thanks Steve

[Silver Tourist]

Good morning.

Gratifying to receive such an effusive note of thanks: such a rare thing.

And still, I have a feeling some small snippet of information is missing: where, I wonder, have I seen something similar?

(Lights blue touchpaper and allows brain to mull over previous Auction Catalogues! Watch this space.)

Thinks: somewhere I have seen a related hallmarked waistbelt clasp! Wonder where that might be?

Enjoy.

S.T.

[Neil Pearce]

A Page from the Edinburgh Gazette 1820 FYI

I am sat on the edge of my seat ST.....

There is also a book by Bill Norfolk called "Militia, Yeomanry and Volunteer Forces of the East Riding 1689-1908" Published 1965, which provides some interesting detail: Pages 32 and 33

Many men would serve without recompense and pay for their own uniforms and weapons, but very few could afford a fine in addition in order to
remain in a volunteer unit. Nevertheless some volunteer corps in the
Riding kept going until 1814, notably the Grimston and Everingham
Yeomanry Cavalry, the Bridlington Artillery Volunteers and the
Hedon Volunteer Infantry. Some others attempted to do so, and the
Pocklington Volunteer corps survived until 1809, despite the fact
that any volunteer transferring to the local militia was paid a bounty
of two guineas, and all volunteer officers transferring were permitted
to retain their rank. It is significant that the opposition to transferring
to the local militia regiments came from the ranks, for most
officers paraded their units and addressed the troops in order to
persuade them to transfer.

This seems to suggest that there was in fact an Earlier Bridlington Artillery Volunteers. Now if there is a hallmarked WBC ST refers to, it will be interesting to observe the motif?

Cheers

Neil

[arrestingu]

..this certainly becomes more fascinating as it goes on !!
thanks chaps !!

[arrestingu]

Just spotted this badge on a tankard !!

'First Brigade East York Artillery Volunteers"

Steve