A bit of my US WWI collection

[Bill A]

Thanks Mike. I will poke around ABE Books and see what I can find.
I only one disc in hand now. It is a heavy gilted brass reading OHIO. I believe it is for the OHIO National Guard, maker marked Meyer Metal.
Several years ago I had a "hate belt" with about 25 discs, but it is long gone. I had images somewhere but I couldn't find them.

[davidwyke]

Hi Mike

Many thanks for the info, much appreciated.

I can see what you mean regarding the numbering system, in theory 218 FS Bn should be in 18 Div although there seem to be some exceptions to that sequence. Some of the Divisional orders of battle mention the Signals units, others (including 18 Div) don't for some reason.

Nevertheless, the pair of collar discs you have shown are probably what he would have worn.

Thanks again!

David

[Tinto]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for all your useful information. I have a few disks including these which I haven't identified. In case pictures are too dark, one has PR/rifles/A, the other has PG/3.
Cheers, Tinto

[Mitter2k1]

Originally Posted by Tinto

Hi Mike,
Thanks for all your useful information. I have a few disks including these which I haven't identified. In case pictures are too dark, one has PR/rifles/A, the other has PG/3.
Cheers, Tinto

Tinto, those are some nice disks that are not seen very often. The PR disk is for the Puerto Rico Infantry, Company A and the PG 3 disk is for a Prison Guard unit.

Thanks for sharing them,
Mike

[Mitter2k1]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Thanks Mike. I will poke around ABE Books and see what I can find.
I only one disc in hand now. It is a heavy gilted brass reading OHIO. I believe it is for the OHIO National Guard, maker marked Meyer Metal.
Several years ago I had a "hate belt" with about 25 discs, but it is long gone. I had images somewhere but I couldn't find them.

Bill that would be correct. If it has a gilt finish and is marked Meyer Metal on the back, it is likely post-WWI. If you could post a photo of it, I will give you a specific time frame by the design.

Thanks,
Mike

[Tinto]

Originally Posted by Mitter2k1

Tinto, those are some nice disks that are not seen very often. The PR disk is for the Puerto Rico Infantry, Company A and the PG 3 disk is for a Prison Guard unit.

Thanks for sharing them,
Mike

Thanks for the identification, Mike. I look forward to seeing more of your collection.
Cheers, Tinto

[Mitter2k1]

As promised, here is some of my field gear collection. I will try explain things as I go as this will take a few posts to cover. As always, if you have any questions or want a better look at something, let me know and I will assist you. This will start with my earliest belt and work from there up to 1918. I'll also try not to be too long-winded with information and cause you guys to lose interest.

First up is an early Russell M1903 9 pocket cartridge belt. This belt in particular has a few interesting features that I will touch on that will become evident in later models. This is first belt issued for the M1903 rifle and sort of led the way for numerous companies and models that lasted through two World Wars for a span of over 50 years. In the beginning there were only two manufacturers, Mills and Russell. Both companies originally started out using very similar designs up until 1907. The famous woven pockets were nearly identical along with the connecting hardware. Mills eventually took legal action and Russell changed their style. The pockets for Russell would no longer be "puckered" like the Mills brand and the connecting hardware was changed as well to a wider style that was the same width as the belt itself instead of the tapered design. With that tidbit explained, I will go into detail about this specific belt.

1. Rimless Eagle Snaps- These were the predecessor to the Rimmed Eagle Snap that began use in 1916 and eventually the Lift the Dot snaps adopted in 1917. As far as the reason for rimmed and rimless snaps, I believe it has something to do with matching the style of uniform buttons used at the time.

2. Same style of pockets as Mills. Both companies used a design with the pockets woven directly to the belt. There is no stitching to form the pockets as it is in a sense, a 1 piece design.

3. Unreinforced pockets. The insides of the early pockets are not reinforced due to the round nosed bullets that were used with the M1903 rifle chambered in .30-03. When .30-06 came out in 1906, the bullet style was changed from round nose to a Spitzer and this proved to wear out the pockets of the earlier belts. So from 1907 on to the next model of belt, the pockets had material added to lengthen their life.

4. Grommets and I mean a bunch. I have not counted the number of grommets on this belt, but they made sure that a soldier could use suspenders and attach equipment with ease.

I hope I didn't lose anyone with the info. My goal is to pass on a bit of knowledge and give a little purpose to this thread while I am still trying to learn about CEF badges.

Thanks,
Mike

[Mitter2k1]

Since I do not have anything that fits the gap between 1903 and 1917, I will jump in with war time manufactured belts.

At the onset of WWI, the US Army was not a large force. Eventually that began to change in 1917 and to meet the needs of the Army, numerous manufacturers sprung up and started working on supplying the troops with gear. When the US entered WWI, there were still only two manufacturers of ammo belts, Mills and Russell. As the war progressed with troop numbers rising quicker than the supply could be made, there needed to be a change. This began with a design that faster to manufacture and could be made by companies that did not have the capability to weave a belt like Mills and Russell, so the wartime sewn ammo belt was born. Three companies began making these items, L.C. Chase and Co. (L.C.C. & Co.), Plant Bros. and Co. (P.B. & Co.) and R.H. Long. All of these belts would feature Lift the Dot fasteners, 9 or 10 pockets depending on the model, and the ability to function with current standard US Army equipment.

I have both Mills and Russell belts and I will begin there.

Belt 1 (Photos 1&2) Russell M1910 10 pocket ammo belt dated June 1918
This was the standard style of belt issued to the infantryman during WWI. It held 100 rounds of .30-06 ammunition (2 stripper clips of 5 rounds/each pocket). It had grommets along the bottom for the attachment of the First Aid Pouch, Canteen, bayonet, and other items specific to certain troops along with grommets on the top for attachment of the M1910 haversack or the M1907 or M1917 suspenders

Belt 2 (Photos 3&4) Modified Mills M1910/17 belt dated March 1918. This belt was originally a 9 pocket belt with a missing pocket used for the mounting of a magazine pouch for either the M1917 revolver or M1911 pistol. It later had the 10th pocket added sometime between 1918 and WWII as the need for a rifle belt that accomodated two pistol magazines was not as important the extra 10 rounds a soldier could carry.

Belt 3 (Photos 5,6&7) Plant Bros. & Co. M1918 Mounted Belt dated sometime in 1918. These were referred to as mounted belts for their use by mounted troops on horseback. This belt was also used by non-commissioned officers that were issued a sidearm as well. This belt is as it was originally setup with the M1916 holster and M1910 first aid pouch. Note- this is a sewn construction belt.

That is all for now so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.
Mike

[Roy]

Hi Mike,

I wanted to thank you for sharing your collection. It is always great to see something different, well done and keep up the good work.

Cheers, Roy.

[Mitter2k1]

Originally Posted by Roy

Hi Mike,

I wanted to thank you for sharing your collection. It is always great to see something different, well done and keep up the good work.

Cheers, Roy.

Thank you Roy. I never would of thought that collecting any sort of militaria would be the journey it has been in a couple of short years. I originally set out to amass a collection of whatever I thought was "cool" and eventually transitioned to strictly WWI and then into doing more research than actual collecting at times. One thing that stuck with me more and more as I progressed was the fact that all of these soldiers are no longer with us. This has really hit home for me. Because of this, I feel the need to preserve this information while I can. There are so many faces without names and names without faces, all lost to time. I do what I can so someone may be remembered and their story is preserved. There are a few photos in my collection that I have been able to positively identify and put a story with. Maybe I can pass that on some day so they may be remembered by someone else that may share this same interest years from now. One of these current projects has been exceedingly difficult. I am attempting to ID all the WWI veterans from my 2 hometowns. But, with all of the research that I have completed so far, I have been able to name 3 KIA soldiers and 2 that died in camp that the local American Legion post had no idea they existed, or at least have no mention of them on their list completed in the 70's or 80's. I hope to have a complete and accurate list to present to them before 2017 so these men may receive the recognition they deserve.

Thank you,
Mike

[Mitter2k1]

Continuing where I left off with ammunition belts, here are the last 3.

Belt 1 (Photos 1&2) This is a R.H. Long M1917 sewn construction 10 pocket belt dated February 1918. This is the wartime version of the standard issue 10 pocket belt used by infantry troops.

Belt 2 (Photo 3) Unknown manufacture M1912 pistol belt, with a Mills mag pouch (dated 1917) and M1912 holster made by G&K and dated to 1917.

Belt 3 (Photos 4&5) M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle gunners belt made by R.H. Long in July of 1918. This in one of my favorite belts as you can probably see why. This belt features a steel cup on the right hand side that the buttstock would slip into for walking fire when advancing. It also has an integral magazine pouch for M1911 mags. Each pocket held 2 steel magazines for the BAR and was sort of used like a crew served weapon. There was another belt that would of been used by an assistant that carried extra magazines for the gunner.

Thanks,
Mike

[Roy]

Hi Mike,

As you have kindly shared your US Colt 1911 holster, I thought you might like to see a very rare 1911 holster that I recently had (now sold to a friend). It is a British Sam Browne pattern WWI holster for the British contract Colt 1911 in .455 calibre. The pistol as I'm sure you know is rare in its own right but the correct 'British' holster is extraordinarily scarce. Sadly I don't have one of these pistols otherwise I would have kept the holster but it has now found a good home with a friend of mine who can now match it to his .455 Colt.

Cheers, Roy.

[Mitter2k1]

That is neat Roy! Who was the manufacturer of that particular holster? I've seen one in the past while browsing the internet looking at some of the interesting British items from WWI. The 1911 in .455 is quite interesting as well and I need to brush up on my history on that weapon.

Thanks for sharing,
Mike

[Roy]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that. No markings at all on this example, so one would presume a private purchase item. Although I have never had an example of the Colt 1911 in .455" I do have a lovely examples of the Webley & Scott model of 1913 in .455". You can check it out in my Webley & Scott album.

I have often thought of getting an example of the Colt in .455" but gosh they can get pricey. But then again if I did get one now I would be kicking myself at letting that holster go

Cheers, Roy.

[Mitter2k1]

It kind of makes you wish that it could talk. I will have to find that thread on the Webleys and take a look at it again. The British revolvers are fascinating in their design and would like to add one to my collection some day as it would look good with my Pattern 14 rifle. <-- And that is the bane of being a collector. It starts with one thing and starts snowballing until you have a room filled with more stuff than you can count in an afternoon.

Mike