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  #16  
Old 20-10-13, 05:17 PM
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[QUOTE=grumpy;234683]Graham why do you say "and the unusual pattern of SD uniform", I think this is not SD post 1902 surely?

Regarding cyclists, a little-known order around 1900 allowed soldiers a Cycling uniform, usually blue - patrol style frock and blue pantaloons with puttees. This morphed, I believe, into the private-purchase [and sometimes unit-purchase] blue patrols, with distinctive high collar, collar badges, and shaped breast pockets. See more, from my notes:

I realise it's not the universal pattern of 1902, but appears to be a campaign SD of an unusual pattern - with no breast pockets. It doesn't appear to be KD, which was of a light weight material. The turn of the century throws up unusual patterns of SD, particularly during the South African War and in many cases no two units seem to wear the same pattern. It's a minefield and probably the reason for a 'universal' pattern of SD in 1902.

As for Cyclists - again no two units appear to wear the same, especially among Volunteer Cyclist Companies - as shown in the photos from S.O.T.Q.. If I remember correctly 3rd V.B., N.F. Cyclist Companies wore khaki from the beginning and at no time wore any form of blue's - nor did Cyclist Companies from V.B.'s Durham L.I.. So the Order you mention was not universally adhered too outside of the Regular's or probably within it.
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  #17  
Old 20-10-13, 08:24 PM
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[QUOTE=Graham Stewart;234680]
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Originally Posted by BROOKIES View Post
C'mon Dave stick to your Mons, cavalry wearing trousers and putties !!!.

Again due to infantry uniform not likely to be MI also the Mons did send companies out to S.A with the SWB.

Obviously you're not familiar with dress of the "Mounted Infantry", who actually wore infantry uniforms, when serving on campaign - as shown. It includes members of the Welsh Regt. All Infantry Regiments of the British Army had within their Battalions men who had passed the M.I. Course and who later served within M.I. Companies - which in turn were attached to M.I. Battalions.

[ATTACH]93093[/ATTACH[ATTACH]93094[/ATTACH
Attachment 93095Attachment 93096

The 'Volunteer Service Companies' to which you also possibly refer served within the elements of their Regular Battalions in South Africa, but under certain conditions - one of which they were 'Discharged' from their Volunteer Battalion and re-enlisted into a V.S.C. under a 'one year' term of enlistment. On completion of that year, they were again Discharged and returned to their V.B. for re-enlistment.
Point taken but i'm sure that he is wearing riding breeches in the photo.
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  #18  
Old 20-10-13, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41st View Post
1st Welsh are recorded as wearing the dragon collar badge in their field service caps prior to introduction of the sealed pattern cap badge.

The volunteer battalions of the Welsh also wore dragon collar badges of the same pattern as shown in the photo, refer to Churchill for the various finishes.

Hwyl,
Kevin
Thanks Kevin for the information on the Welsh using the small dragon as a cap badge in the FS cap.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-13, 06:50 PM
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Looking in Churchill's collar badge book he mentions the Welsh cyclist Bn wore the Mons style collar dragons in gilding metal (1908) before they changed over to the blackened type with the introduction of their rifle green tunic (1912?).
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  #20  
Old 20-05-14, 05:14 PM
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By a strange coincidence I found another pic which appears to have one of the same group in it, but on his own.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg welsh cyclists pic - Copy smaller.jpg (58.1 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg welsh cyclists pic - Comp 2.jpg (60.1 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg welsh cyclists pic - detail.jpg (68.7 KB, 28 views)
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  #21  
Old 20-05-14, 07:09 PM
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Detail of the collar dragons.
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File Type: jpg welsh cyclists pic collar details.jpg (35.4 KB, 24 views)
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  #22  
Old 21-05-14, 05:34 PM
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Great pictures. Personally, I think that they are Welsh Regt VB cyclists.
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  #23  
Old 21-05-14, 06:13 PM
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Thanks. I also tend to think that Welsh regiment cyclists are most likely, and perhaps they may be VB rather than TF, the latter who wore blackened collars from 1912 but wore this type from their formation in 1908 until then.

It was good to reunite this picture with the other one. Perhaps more are out there of these fellows to be found.
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  #24  
Old 21-05-14, 08:36 PM
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Welsh Regiment cyclists were a rifle battalion and wore appropriate buttons, collar badges and cap badges.

This is basic stuff chaps.
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  #25  
Old 21-05-14, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41st View Post
Welsh Regiment cyclists were a rifle battalion and wore appropriate buttons, collar badges and cap badges.

This is basic stuff chaps.
Not until 1912 according to the books I have, when the rifles tunic was introduced with blackened dragon collars, as I described it in an earlier post and as shown on p38 of Bryn Owen's the Welch Regiment 1881-1969. Churchill's History of the British Army collar badge states that from 1908 to 1912 prior to the introduction of the rifles uniform they wore the GM dragon collar.

If not cyclists, then what? A VB of the Welsh? Why the lanyard? Circa 1885-1902?
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  #26  
Old 22-05-14, 05:22 PM
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Good evening

Collars (tail up at that angle) are for the 2nd or 3rd VB The Welsh.

Ta
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  #27  
Old 18-06-14, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKIES View Post
Good evening

Collars (tail up at that angle) are for the 2nd or 3rd VB The Welsh.

Ta
This type?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mons pattern wm collars small.jpg (45.8 KB, 21 views)
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  #28  
Old 19-06-14, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKIES View Post
Good evening

Collars (tail up at that angle) are for the 2nd or 3rd VB The Welsh.

Ta
If it helps the discussion here are the approved patterns from WO 359 for 1VB Welsh and 3 VB Welsh. The files are incomplete so no patterns there for 2VB and as you will see no collar badges illustrated for 3 VB.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 VB Welsh 2.jpg (60.7 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg 1 VB Welsh colalr badge close up.jpg (32.3 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 3VB Welsh.jpg (51.9 KB, 28 views)
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  #29  
Old 19-06-14, 02:02 PM
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Thanks John,
That's a couple I can tick off the list.
Hwyl,
Kevin
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  #30  
Old 19-06-14, 03:22 PM
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Personally I feel that the evidence is strong that they are indeed cyclists.
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