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  #16  
Old 14-09-17, 10:29 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Hi Tim
Very true
Anything is possible ...
Interesting re allocation of new number on Commission. I had wondered if this might explain the dropping of a digit. Having checked a couple of other names in the link you added - to see if the same numbers were used in subsequent gazettes - I did find they were the same. We could do with that 'copperplate' ledger you mention.
If I can get access to more Army lists, like the April 1944 one Jon (Postwarden) looked at (post 6), I will try to find when 'Special Service' started to appear for AHA Emery ... I am fairly certain he must be our man
Thanks for your interest Tim - much appreciated
Mike
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  #17  
Old 15-09-17, 02:06 PM
Paul Spellman Paul Spellman is offline
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Hi Mike,
Not sure if you found or have ruled out this chap.
Paul
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  #18  
Old 15-09-17, 03:17 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Hi Paul
Very many thanks for pointing RJ Emery out. There was a bit of a discussion on the Commando Veterans Association site about the possibility it could be him. As you kindly point out in your posting - It was noted Capt Reginald Emery, R Norfolk Regt served in No.6 Cdo. No service number was given but the proposal built up quite a 'head of steam'.

As No.6 Cdo served in North Africa there was a possible (perhaps tenuous) link to ME Cdo knives.

I did some digging in the No.6 Cdo war diary and found: Capt RJ Emery, is NOT noted on Field Returns for 19 December 1942, or 2 January 1943 when No.6 Cdo was in North Africa (Nov 1942-May 1943). However, it remained possible that Capt RJ Emery may have acquired the knives subsequently.

The first reference to Lt RJ Emery is when he was in charge of Group C4 for Exercise Regency, planned for either 8-9 July 1943 or 13-16 July 1943. Unfortunately no service number or parent regiment is provided. The next reference I have is on 20 September 1943 when he goes on a mule training course in Scotland. Your posting helpfully adds details of subsequent service in North West Europe.

I also unearthed a record for Lt RJ Emery No.6 Cdo with parent Regiment of Lancashire Fusiliers (rather than Norfolk Regiment) and Service No.262301

Either of the above sets of 'records' may be linked to the knives in some way - perhaps even being different people from the same family (perhaps doubtful).

What threw favour on the RAOC chap (Alan Harry Augustus Emery - 126533) is the similarity of Service Number (12633) recorded on the knives - and the reference Jon found in the Army list to his 'Special Service' - the problem is padding this out.

Many thanks for your help Paul, and to everyone who does not mind me 'banging on' about this puzzle. It is just that I value the opinions and help we gain through this Forum. There will be an answer ... just need to nail it

Mike
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  #19  
Old 15-09-17, 04:11 PM
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grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
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Mike,
Have you been able to find any other London Gazette entries for Alan Harry Augustus EMERY apart from his initial commissioning in 1940? I have tried but so far without success. This is odd given his subsequent promotion(s) and that he was apparently married/divorced in 1964.

I wonder if his "Special Service/Employment" was of a classified nature - not with the Commandos but perhaps with SOE or MI6 etc. this might explain the dearth of published information?

Tim
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  #20  
Old 15-09-17, 04:54 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Hi Tim
Many thanks for your continued interest
I have found nothing more in the London Gazette and am coming to the same point you suggest ... it is all quite odd.
His inclusion in Burkes peerage may suggest connections in the right places for such employment.
Still retaining an open mind - but yet another viable option.
Sincere thanks for the time you have taken to dig into this
Mike
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  #21  
Old 15-09-17, 05:43 PM
Paul Spellman Paul Spellman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Hi Paul
Very many thanks for pointing RJ Emery out. There was a bit of a discussion on the Commando Veterans Association site about the possibility it could be him. As you kindly point out in your posting - It was noted Capt Reginald Emery, R Norfolk Regt served in No.6 Cdo. No service number was given but the proposal built up quite a 'head of steam'.

As No.6 Cdo served in North Africa there was a possible (perhaps tenuous) link to ME Cdo knives.

I did some digging in the No.6 Cdo war diary and found: Capt RJ Emery, is NOT noted on Field Returns for 19 December 1942, or 2 January 1943 when No.6 Cdo was in North Africa (Nov 1942-May 1943). However, it remained possible that Capt RJ Emery may have acquired the knives subsequently.

The first reference to Lt RJ Emery is when he was in charge of Group C4 for Exercise Regency, planned for either 8-9 July 1943 or 13-16 July 1943. Unfortunately no service number or parent regiment is provided. The next reference I have is on 20 September 1943 when he goes on a mule training course in Scotland. Your posting helpfully adds details of subsequent service in North West Europe.

I also unearthed a record for Lt RJ Emery No.6 Cdo with parent Regiment of Lancashire Fusiliers (rather than Norfolk Regiment) and Service No.262301

Either of the above sets of 'records' may be linked to the knives in some way - perhaps even being different people from the same family (perhaps doubtful).

What threw favour on the RAOC chap (Alan Harry Augustus Emery - 126533) is the similarity of Service Number (12633) recorded on the knives - and the reference Jon found in the Army list to his 'Special Service' - the problem is padding this out.

Many thanks for your help Paul, and to everyone who does not mind me 'banging on' about this puzzle. It is just that I value the opinions and help we gain through this Forum. There will be an answer ... just need to nail it

Mike
No problem Mike,
I thought you would of turned that stone over, Good luck on your search.
Paul
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  #22  
Old 16-09-17, 08:40 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
Tim (and all)
Many thanks - I much appreciate your guidance on this. That is in deed the source entry I refer to in the first post of this thread. I did wonder if a digit may be dropped upon his Commissioning to 2/Lt. I believe one knife is 'Scratched Emery 12633' the other has an ink inscription on the scabbard strap 'Major Emery 12633'.
Perhaps the knives and scabbards have been switched sometime in the past, and originally belonged together?

His name does not appear in the index of Charles Messenger's 'The Middle East Commandos' but I'm sure you checked that already yourself.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #23  
Old 17-09-17, 11:25 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Hi Thomas (Fougasse 1940) - good to hear from you.
I am not an expert on knives but gather from independent expert opinion the wear to scabbards confirm they are a perfect match for long paired items. The staining/marking/wear to the leather scabbards do suggest a perfect match for each knife. I recall the two knives were very slightly different and hence the ability to be sure each knife was in the correct scabbard. Nevertheless, I agree it is right to ask such questions. Thanks for your interest. I appreciate your thoughts and any other ideas from the Forum.

.................................................. .........................................

A POTENTIALLY INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT

Tim (Grey-Green-Acorn) and all
Since you suggested of an SOE connection I recall the Middle East Commando knife appeared popular within Force 133 - I have now checked the London Gazette for Donald Hamilton-Hill author of SOE Assignment and a member of Force 133. A Middle East Commando knife appears on the cover of his book (in the edition I have)

This has proved very interesting

First appears ... 15 Dec 1939, where he is listed as 108363 - Camerons - Emergency Commission 25 Nov 1939.

The next reference to him I can find is 23 May 1946 where he is listed under Camerons as Maj (temp) HD Hamilton-Hill - 108363 - receiving a Mention in Despatches in recognition of gallant and distinguished service in the Mediterranean Theatre.

Like my search for Emery I can find no more (ie I can not find promotions for Hamilton-Hill or Emery). I STAND TO BE CORRECTED IF ANYONE CAN FIND MORE.

However, Is it possible, given these apparent similarities, that Emery served with Force 133, or similar organisation? I retain an open mind but IF my findings are correct this must be a possibility.

THOUGHTS OF ANY FORUM MEMBERS WELCOME

Many thanks
Mike
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  #24  
Old 21-09-17, 09:16 AM
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High Wood High Wood is offline
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Having spent some time researching WW2 British officers on the London Gazette website I have noticed that an individual Officer can often 'disappear' after his commission or, is rarely mentioned again until he relinquishes his commission. His full name only appears in the commission entry with his initials being used in subsequent entries. Once you have his official number he should be easier to find.

To find details of promotions, I use online Army Lists but these never give the service number so there can still be some leg work involved.

There should only be one Army Officer with a particular number but a search can bring up a RN or RAF member with the same number.

I can find only one entry for Cpl Alan Harry Augustus Emery who is commissioned with the number (126533)

There is a Sgt William Ronald Ainslie who was commissioned with the number (E/C12653)

Reginald James Emery (262301) gets only one entry in the London Gazette.

Last edited by High Wood; 21-09-17 at 09:33 AM.
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  #25  
Old 21-09-17, 09:35 AM
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Mike Jackson Mike Jackson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
And more...

36 Beach Brick. Formed on 20 July 1943 at Kabrit in Egypt around the dismounted men of 8th Royal Tank Regiment. The brick was sent to Palestine in August, around plans for capture of Rhodes in late 1943. This was cancelled and the Brick transferred to the UK in early 1944. By this time, 8th Royal Tank Regiment had left the Brick and been re-equipped with tanks; 18th Durham Light Infantry took their place. For the Normandy landings, the Brick was in reserve for Gold.

Composition (Normandy)[30]
Unit
18th Battalion Durham Light Infantry
Royal Artillery HQ 100th Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment
305th Heavy Anti Aircraft Battery
328th Light Anti Aircraft Battery
R.A.M.C. Detachments
R.A.O.C. Detachments
R.E.M.E. Detachments
R.A.S.C. Detail Issue Depot
Royal Engineers 503rd Field Company
Mechanised Equipment Company
Military Police Provost Detachment
Royal Air Force 15th RAF Beach Flight (?)
And a little more:

36 Beach Brick (71 Indep Coy, Queen's) (Reserve Beach Brick for 104 Beach Sub Area)

71 Indep Coy, Queen's commanded by Capt RG Graham, wef 1 Jun 43 formed a special unit RE Works Coy in ME with tasks of "beach development". Landed Salerno Aug 43. To UK 1 May 44. 11 Jun 44 landed Gold Beach (King) (Mont Fleury) (104 Beach Sub-Area). By Sep 44 the beach was cleared and the unit was employed on guard duties including POW guards. In Oct 44 the unit worked in Boulogne and Calais on beach tasks. Located Calais in May 45 and was disbanded 20 Sep 45.
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  #26  
Old 21-09-17, 10:36 AM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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High Wood
Many thanks for your continued interest and guidance.
I much appreciate you informing me of your own experience with Officers disappearing from London Gazette entries between initial commission and relinquishing commission. It acts as a word of caution, in that I should not assume there is anything unusual about Emery's record going cold.
I wish I had enough details to request his service record, but I believe I need a Death Certificate and I do not know where or when he died.

I have come across the duplication with RAF records, and Indian Army records where Service Numbers appear the same as for British Army Officers etc.
Regards
Mike

.................................................. ..........................................

Mike
Although the Officer in question is not the Emery I am interested in, I always find the composition of Beach Groups interesting. They are a minefield, and their complexity appears almost unfathomable. I recall Len Whittaker doing a separate study of Beach Groups and his findings were a real maze from my recollection.
Many thanks for sharing this additional information
Mike

Last edited by Mike B; 21-09-17 at 03:10 PM.
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  #27  
Old 21-09-17, 12:39 PM
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High Wood High Wood is offline
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Mike,

I am pleased that my random thoughts were useful to you.

The 1944 Army List 1st Quarter 1828a has the following.

Regular Army Emergency Commissions. Administrative Branch.

2nd Lieutenants.

Emery. A.H.A. (W/S Lt 6/10/41), (T/Capt 12/8/43). Spec Emp. 6/4/40


The last date is that of his first commission.

Simon
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  #28  
Old 21-09-17, 03:04 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Simon
Extremely useful summary thank you
Yes - all thoughts appreciated ...
You have helped me in the past too and I value your opinion
The early reference to 'Special Employment' is tantalising. At that time (6/4/40) we were kicking off irregular formations such as Independent Companies etc. Many who got involved with them had subsequent irregular service in a number of guises. But I guess 'Special Employment' could mean all sorts of things. The fact this query relates to two Middle East Commando knives bearing the name 'Emery' and related service number (albeit missing one digit) continues to perplex me.
Regards and thanks again for your help
Mike

Last edited by Mike B; 21-09-17 at 03:18 PM.
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  #29  
Old 21-09-17, 06:22 PM
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High Wood High Wood is offline
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The special employment does not date from 1940. It is a peculiarity of how the Army Lists are structured. The special Employment was his current status at the time the List was compiled and for some strange reason the date first commissioned appears last.
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  #30  
Old 21-09-17, 06:56 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Simon
Many thanks for the clarification - I am learning all the time.
Mike
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