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  #1  
Old 12-06-17, 06:04 PM
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Default N.Z.P.& T.C. "CELERITAS" also Moari Warrior "KIA MATE TOA"

Hi can anyone tell me anything about this badge please? N.Z.P.& T.C. is this Air Force or postal services?

The Moari Warrior "KIA MATE TOA" This badge has a Gaunt Tab, think it is Bore War? Period any information would be appreciated cheers billy
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File Type: jpg 20170612_182742-1.jpg (60.5 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20170612_182806-1.jpg (71.1 KB, 6 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-06-17, 06:44 PM
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From 1921 to 1935 the New Zealand Post and Telegraph Corps badge was worn by the New Zealand Signals.
Thanks to Chris Walker.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...t=zealand+post
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  #3  
Old 12-06-17, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy View Post
Hi can anyone tell me anything about this badge please? N.Z.P.& T.C. is this Air Force or postal services?

The Moari Warrior "KIA MATE TOA" This badge has a Gaunt Tab, think it is Bore War? Period any information would be appreciated cheers billy
Hi Billy,
The Maori warrior badge is for the 8th (Southland) Regiment, dating from 1911. Unfortunately like so many of these badges it is minus the tip of the taiaha (long club).
Cheers, Tinto
I should add the Maori inscription means "Die bravely".

Last edited by Tinto; 12-06-17 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Added info
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  #4  
Old 13-06-17, 10:06 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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From 1912 to 1921 the New Zealand Post and Telegraph Corps badge was worn by the New Zealand Post and Telegraph Corps.
Check out post #40 in the following thread.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...t=14865&page=3

The correct (original) Maori inscription for the 8th (Southland) Regiment was 'Die Game'.
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  #5  
Old 14-06-17, 08:00 AM
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It is interesting that out of 3 translations "Die bravely," “Die Game, “ and “Fight unto Death” which is mentioned by Dave Corbetts badge book as being the translation for “Kia mate toa,“ only Die Bravely is a literal translation of Die Game.

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  #6  
Old 16-06-17, 06:21 PM
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Hi Brent,
Thanks for the archival information. Interesting to note that hat and collars were to be the same size.
Cheers, John
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  #7  
Old 16-06-17, 06:34 PM
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Being part of the website kiamatetoa.com ,I have never found who designed the 8th Southland company badge .And why Southland ,being the least populated Maori province ,chose a Maori warrior as its emblem .Some questions I would like answered




Quote:
Originally Posted by atillathenunns View Post
It is interesting that out of 3 translations "Die bravely," “Die Game, “ and “Fight unto Death” which is mentioned by Dave Corbetts badge book as being the translation for “Kia mate toa,“ only Die Bravely is a literal translation of Die Game.


Last edited by pukman; 16-06-17 at 08:31 PM.
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  #8  
Old 16-06-17, 09:23 PM
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Hi Iain,
I've also wondered who designed this badge.
I have this item, possibly silver, about 2mm thick, which may have been a prototype for the badge. There are obvious differences in design which surely wouldn't be there if a copy of the issued badge was being made.
If you want it for your collection send your address by private message.
Cheers, John
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  #9  
Old 18-06-17, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukman View Post
Being part of the website kiamatetoa.com ,I have never found who designed the 8th Southland company badge .And why Southland ,being the least populated Maori province ,chose a Maori warrior as its emblem .Some questions I would like answered
Puk I am not surprised you have drawn a blank on the designer of the 8th Southland badge, but the choice of why a Maori warrior was chosen, I believe you need to look at your local Maori history.
I can think of two great Southland Maori Chiefs that the badge may have been modelled on, Te Whakataupuka who fought off Te Rauparaha’s invasion of the upper South Island, and Tūhawaiki who killed Te Rauparaha’s ally Te Pūoho at Tuturau who led a war party to the South in 1836.
I am leaning toward Tūhawaiki who was considered as the “most powerful chief in the south” and went on to sign the Treaty of Waitangi in June 1840.

I will be honest, I have never visited the kiamatetoa.com website before, but it is interesting that a website that “provides key information for families, students and historians” has the translation of “Kia Mate Toa: Fight Unto Death”
It seems that John and I are both convinced that the translation is Die Bravely and not Fight Unto Death.

Perhaps a fourth translation “Brave to the Death “on the following post card (which is another literal translation of Die Game) is another nail in the coffin for “Fight Unto Death.”

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  #10  
Old 18-06-17, 08:04 AM
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Unfortunately we can not ask the late David Corbett ,author of ''The Regimental badges of New Zealand ',why he chose Fight unto Death for the motto translation .

Last edited by pukman; 18-06-17 at 09:05 AM.
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  #11  
Old 19-06-17, 07:43 AM
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Puk although it would be interesting to know the source, I too see no point in digging Dave C up to find out, but do think the kiamatetoa.com website should include "Die bravely" which is the most common historical translation of Kia Mate Toa.
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  #12  
Old 19-06-17, 09:46 AM
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Fair enough Brent, taken on board ,the literal meaning of kia mate toa is indeed die bravely /gamely .There is no argument there .


I did find a reference in a period paper that referred to kia mate toa as ''fight till the end '' (papers past).
Maybe D.C had some anecdotal reference to justify his statement or maybe he just made a mistake .Time will tell.
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  #13  
Old 16-08-17, 08:54 PM
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Hi all,

I was a member of A coy 4 Osouth before it become 2/4 RNZIR.
We were told at the time that kia mate toa was Fight unto death.

Just thought i would throw another spanner...

Thanks

Dan
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