Irish Guards Badge Lugs Size

[Bill]

John
Attached are photos of 6 OSD's: 1 Irish Guards, 2 Scots Guards, including bronze with loops (or is this a pip?), and 3 Coldstream Guards.

Of the two silver Coldstream Guards, the one with simple rays looks like a miniature version of the Warrant Officers pagri badge. I have been told that indeed it is a rare WO badge - or it's not!?

Cheers

Bill

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Bill

John
Attached are photos of 6 OSD's: 1 Irish Guards, 2 Scots Guards, including bronze with loops (or is this a pip?), and 3 Coldstream Guards.

Of the two silver Coldstream Guards, the one with simple rays looks like a miniature version of the Warrant Officers pagri badge. I have been told that indeed it is a rare WO badge - or it's not!?

Cheers

Bill

Bill the IG star is certainly the one I see in photos dating from c. 1913. I cannot help at all with the Coldstream Guards question.

John

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Bill

John
Attached are photos of 6 OSD's: 1 Irish Guards, 2 Scots Guards, including bronze with loops (or is this a pip?), and 3 Coldstream Guards.

Of the two silver Coldstream Guards, the one with simple rays looks like a miniature version of the Warrant Officers pagri badge. I have been told that indeed it is a rare WO badge - or it's not!?

Cheers

Bill

Bill,
You have some lovely badges and thank you for sharing them, just one as a point of education, whilst other Regiments and Corps may be more than happy having their officer's rank insignia refered to as "Pips", Guards officers wear Stars and pips are the small seeds found in citrus fruit or in less recent days the sounds you heard when your money was about to run out on a pay phone (anyone rembers those lol) .

Guards Officers badges would have been sourced from an array of suppliers, some from the established badge manufacturers and others from family or Regimental jewellers. I suspect you have been led up the Garden Path with regards to the very romantic suggestion that one of the Coldstream Cap Stars mat be a miniature WO's Pagri badge, It is more likely to be a variant of the OSD badge or even a brooch?

Thanks again for posting your images

Andy

[Bill]

Thanks Andy
I wasn't suggesting that the 'Star' was a small pagri but service dress. It is not a brooch but it is certainly different! What is your opinion on the CG bronze star?
Cheers
Bill

[ray smith]

Thought I would show you my collection of OSD badges to the Coldstream & Scots Guards for your appraisal.
Regards
Ray Smith

[ray smith]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Bill ,

the 1911 DRs indicate that the badge for in wear in OSD is the same as the forage cap star but in bronze.

I read this as meaning it is full size.

I do not have an example of this in my own collection. All I have seen for sale are full size.

Have you seen evidence of a small OSD version?

John

John, If you look at the photo,s i have just posted on this thread,you will see a
Scots Guards Bronze one.
Regards
Ray

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by ray smith

John, If you look at the photo,s i have just posted on this thread,you will see a
Scots Guards Bronze one.
Regards
Ray

Yes indeed Ray, I note the small bronzes SG Star thank you. I must try to put some extra effort into researching the IG OSD star between 1902 and 1914.

John

[Bill]

John, What is the source of the dates please?
Ray, Have you dated the silver hall mark?
Cheers
Bill

[ray smith]

Originally Posted by Bill

John, What is the source of the dates please?
Ray, Have you dated the silver hall mark?
Cheers
Bill

Hi Bill I have had these a long time,I know they are hall marked but have never bothered to date.
Now the silver man is banned, Who else would know?
Regards
Ray

[cavalryman]

Hello Ray, This isn't hard at all, if you google English hallmarks they will all come up then it's just a case of matching them up. anchor= Birmingham leopards head =London and every year has a letter of the alphabet A-Z but what happens when you get to Z? they change the style of the letter and/or change the shape of the shield which the letter is in. regards john

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Bill

John, What is the source of the dates please?

Cheers
Bill

Bill the significance of the dates is as follows...

1902 - the year that AO 40 introduced Officers Service Dress and the bronzed finished badges to be used on it. Any IG bronzed star is unlikely to date from before .

1913 is more arbitrary, I have yet to see a photo of an officer of the IF in service dress during WW1 with bright cap stars, and I doubt that there were bronzed stars polished so that the bronzing was removed. Images I have seen Aug 1914 show a mix of bright large forage cap sized cap stars in use with a smaller number of smaller OSD sized cap stars.

See below

1 IG in 1906, officers in OSD wearing undress forage caps with bright large cap stars, officers of 2 IG dated 1916 wearing service caps with bright smaller stars. The bronzed OSD cap star seems to have disappeared from use c, 1913-14 and maybe even before 1906. What do you think?

John

[Deejayuu]

[QUOTE=2747andy;299404]John,
the COLDM GDS OSD is so far the only bladed small size badge, I've encountered, not saying others don't exist but I've seen several of the COLDM GDS OSDs. Definitely not Rank Stars and with a green cloth insert.

Not quick enough off the mark. Post deleted

[Bill]

John,
Thank you very much for your response and the photographs.
I think until an IG bronze turns up (and photographic evidence of one being worn), they don't exist!
Kind regards
Bill

[ray smith]

Originally Posted by Bill

Hi John
I have a Coldstream Guards with blades and Scots Guards with loops both in bronze. The Scots Guards has a flat centre (i.e. not raised like the epaulette pips?). They are identical to the small OSD silver/gilt/enamel cap badges.

I would assume the the Irish Guards would follow suit, but I have never seen one. The bronze pips are the right size but have raised centres.

Any thoughts?
Cheers
Bill

Hi Bill,
Would you please show me a photo of your Scots Guards OSD with flat centre.
Regards
Ray Smith

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Bill

John,
Thank you very much for your response and the photographs.
I think until an IG bronze turns up (and photographic evidence of one being worn), they don't exist!
Kind regards
Bill

Bill,

I assume you mean a small variant of the bronzed OSD star. If so, I agree with your point of view.

A full sized version of the IG bronzed OSD star does exist.

John