59th (Newfoundland) Heavy Regt RA titles?? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Paul Spellman · #1 12-07-17, 03:00 PM

Just got these two titles, the one above worn by the 59th and possibly 166th (Newfoundland) Fd Regt RA.
Is the one below a variant RA type title or possibly a Royal Navy one for the Newfoundlanders who volunteered for service with the RN.
Thanks in advance
Paul

Mike Jackson · #2 12-07-17, 03:17 PM

Very good. These are not good quality images but even the caribou on the helmet is visible. The titles are mine. Mike
Newfoundland RA.01.jpg Newfoundland RA.03.jpg Newfoundland.01.jpg

Paul Spellman · #3 12-07-17, 03:27 PM

Thanks Mike, the image is great. Nice to see your titles too.
I have had a email for a suggestion on the other title (Red on Black) which nearly made me fall off my seat. But will wait and see what others say.
Cheers
Paul

Mike Jackson · #4 12-07-17, 03:50 PM

And three more I missed last time. Mike
Newfoundland.jpg

Postwarden · #5 13-07-17, 01:49 PM

Paul,

The red on black title has the look of a First World War title, possibly Royal Newfoundland Regiment?

Just my thoughts.

Jon

Paul Spellman · #6 13-07-17, 03:17 PM

Thanks Jon,
Here is the reverse, I'm sure it is probably WW2, it has been suggested it could of been worn by the few Newfoundlanders that volunteered for Commando training going on to serve with 11 Commando or Royal Navy Commando.
I have tracked down another to a Bosley's Sale in 2015 but the description only described it as a 'WW2 Newfoundland Regt Title'
Paul
Thanks again Mike for posting your other titles, it certainly shows there were a few Red on Khaki types.

Mike Jackson · #7 13-07-17, 03:42 PM

Here's an interesting group of insignia. Who would have thought that Newfoundland Gunners could be linked with 6 SA Armd Div in Italy? Mike

http://www.thememoryproject.com/imag...ages/page:170/

Mike B · #8 13-07-17, 04:20 PM

Hi Paul
Postwarden kindly mentioned your post ...
It is interesting to read of a potential Commando connection. I have spoken/corresponded with WW2 Commandos of many nationalities - never a Newfoundlander.
It made me smile when I thought of a Newfoundlander in No 11 Cdo as the unit served in Layforce, went to the Middle East, and were badly mauled at Litani River where there CO Lt Col Pedder was killed. I just thought of someone from Newfoundland melting in the heat ...
(No 11 Cdo was a short lived unit, being erased from order of battle before Red on Black Commando titles were issued)
So far as current research goes I have not identified, found or heard of any unit insignia applicable to No.11 Cdo. It is of course possible a Nationality title such as this could be an exception - if issued to an individual before disbandment of Layforce by January 1942 (Disbandment was protracted and phased).
There were Canadians in W Beach Commando and in 14 Cdo - again no record of a Newfoundlander in the later unless enlisted in a Canadian Unit.
A very interesting title in deed; but I am unsure of Cdo connection - never say never though as the above are only random thoughts. I am always looking to learn more and would welcome further thoughts from anyone.
All the best and another great addition to your collection
Mike

Paul Spellman · #9 13-07-17, 05:05 PM

Hi Mike
I was directed to the www.canadianmilitarycollectors.com Website with regard to the 11 Commando suggestion, I cannot put a direct link but the thread was for The Rarest BD. Extract attached
I also assume from other reading that some members of the 59th volunteered for Commando training and possibly joined other Cdo units as seen in the IWM image in the next post.
One Newfoundlander from the 59th Also witnessed the the action at Pegasus Bridge as a Foward Artillery Observer.
All speculation at the moment and no positive ID yet.
Paul

Paul Spellman · #10 13-07-17, 05:06 PM

IWM image Newfoundlanders Cdo Trg

Paul Spellman · #11 13-07-17, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Here's an interesting group of insignia. Who would have thought that Newfoundland Gunners could be linked with 6 SA Armd Div in Italy? Mike

http://www.thememoryproject.com/imag...ages/page:170/

Thanks Mike,
These Newfoundlanders do seem very interesting
Paul

Bill A · #12 13-07-17, 05:21 PM

Hello Paul, Interesting possibility that the title was associated with commando units. I think that is improbable, and more likely the red on dark blue is associated with naval service.
The "army" Newfoundlanders served as artillery inthe Second World War to protect them from serious losses like they had suffered in the First World War.

Bill A · #13 13-07-17, 05:27 PM

The Newfoundland titles are found in several variations. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment titles were post Confederation. (1949).

Paul Spellman · #14 13-07-17, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hello Paul, Interesting possibility that the title was associated with commando units. I think that is improbable, and more likely the red on dark blue is associated with naval service.
The "army" Newfoundlanders served as artillery inthe Second World War to protect them from serious losses like they had suffered in the First World War.

Thanks Bill,
I find it is certainly a very interesting subject.
I have read that there was no pressure put on any of the Newfoundlanders to Volunteer for service with the British Army RAF or Royal Navy and as a crown dependency were only obliged to raise a Militia for home defence. There were enough volunteers into the British Army that they formed two Artillery Regt's, the 59th and the 166th, the latter quickly being despatched to North Africa.
The 59th remaining in the UK defending the South East coast before landing in Normandy,It seems the opportunities to volunteer for other duties were taken up by a number of men possibly from both Regiments.
The use of the title within the Royal Navy is also drawing up a blank but I would appreciate to know its use either way,
The loose thread were it has been attached to uniform seems to be of a Khaki colour
Paul

Mike B · #15 13-07-17, 05:54 PM

This is turning into a very interesting thread ... thanks for the information which is all new to me.
Paul - I had not heard of that Commando link before
Mike - very interesting photograph. Clearly I need to do more digging.
Bill A - Certainly true that Cdo service would fly in the face of any proposition to prevent losses as experienced in WW1 (I have visited the Newfoundland memorial and am staggered by the sacrifice made by Newfoundland in that conflict)
Mike